Spiral wrap saltwater rods.

[philaroman]

interesting you mention "reinforcing the blank at the rear" -- what did you use?
I was thinking of trying a rear section from a light telescopic pole:
really nice thin-wall Korean tobacco glass...  4 or 5 nestled large OD choices
if you already tried something that "thin & slow" for outer layer & no-go, I'll know not to bother

by "flip up", do you mean folding guides? 
might Match double-foot (like Fuji BNMVAG) be better for weight/strength on lighter rods?

[Cor]

interesting you mention "reinforcing the blank at the rear" -- what did you use?
I was thinking of trying a rear section from a light telescopic pole:
really nice thin-wall Korean tobacco glass...  4 or 5 nestled large OD choices
if you already tried something that "thin & slow" for outer layer & no-go, I'll know not to bother

by "flip up", do you mean folding guides?  
might Match double-foot (like Fuji BNMVAG) be better for weight/strength on lighter rods?

Agreed on the guide, problem is that I live in Cape Town and many things you take for granted are difficult or very expensive to obtain here.    Buying online works out very expensive and there is always a significant risk that it never gets here.

I have a large box full of pieces of graphite from broken rods that I repair.    You can make an insert and glue it inside the blank, however that does not tend to work well.   Adds more weight then stiffness.     You can achieve the same by lengthening it from the back, that has the effect of pushing the backbone section of the rod forward and works well, but takes quite a bit of testing and changing to get right.   I have once fitted a sleeve over a portion of a blank, but also a lot of experimenting and work to get right.

It can all be done if you know precisely what you want and have time to fiddle with it.

Some purists will frown upon this, but I've done it all and successfully.

[oldmanjoe]

 I would agree that putting a insert into the handle section does not work well all the time .
Most times it breaks the stick at the end of the insert when under stress .
Going back and adding to the length of the stick worked  better  .

[gstours]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.  In the picture you can see the hand grip the rod and the clearance needed for the application in mind.  Moving the first guide and or using a less tall guide reduces the clearance
  This is to answer Wayne's question hopefully, and it's a solution to the earlier problem of having the line cutting into the foregrip or your wrist in stand up fishing 🎣.  Thanks for your illustration.🐟
  As to help Alex understand what was done at the stripper guide shown a confession must be made.
A size 10 guide was trimmed of its feet and JB welded to the size 20 and offset as much as possible.
  This is experimental and did work to keep the line in the center of the reel with no mending. Waay better than the test with the factory 20.   Yes a 16 is just somewhat the smaller twin sister..🤔
  In a spiral wrap rod this is the biggest problem I've seen as there is nothing tall, somewhat sturdy, with the small diameter ceramic that I'm aware of.
  Roller guides aren't designed for any side load,  The Aftco graphite stripper Wayne showed us, does have a titanium side plate and is quite tall.   Butt so is he.😻
    Tall narrow reels will help to keep the line off your hand,   So maybe the combination is something to consider?    I have not yet accepted the idea of cocking the first guide to the right in order to go left in the transition layout.
    I,m kinda screwed ☹️

[steelfish]

T
  As to help Alex understand what was done at the stripper guide shown a confession must be made.
A size 10 guide was trimmed of its feet and JB welded to the size 20 and offset as much as possible.
  This is experimental and did work to keep the line in the center of the reel with no mending. Waay better than the test with the factory 20.   Yes a 16 is just somewhat the smaller twin sister..🤔

so, Gary, you're saying a normal 20 tall guide didnt kept the line centered on the reel but a welded ring/ceramic from a size 10 guide to it made it work?

if you dont want to offset the 1st guide to the right in order to have the line more centered then just leave the line to line up on the left of the reel and push it away to the right on the spool, it becomes a mechanic and automatic when reeling the line back to the reel and gives a nice lay in the line.

[gstours]

No, butt it did improve the level lay of the line without mending it coming back on the reel in a simulation test.   For years we have been mending in coming line on trolling type reels, it's just second nature.
  The taller narrow reels just seem to excentuate the need when the spiral wrap rod is in motion.
    I'm just making some observations.   This is how we learn.     😻

[gstours]

In simulation mode,  some measures to help.

[gstours]

And now the more obvious.

[gstours]

As tall as reel is it does not change the clearance it the first guide,  only the angles change.
   As piks demo.
         Butt the taller reel seemed to buy some more clearance.   Just saying.   

[oldmanjoe]

   You could squeeze the legs closer together and do a under wrap on the first guide if needing more room .
    At the moment you have room , [ full spool ] what do you have with line out and in fight mode ?
         

[gstours]

Maybe you have the solution.  Mr. Joe's.  Put the small diameter first guide on a stand of some type?
   Q, n A.   The reel half full will lower the line angle,  butt the guide is fixed and it's here where the height may allow the line to rub your hand or groove the grip.
  It's a clue why some rod builders flatten the top of the round grip,  this allows clearance from the line.
      If we can't have fun,  why go fishing 🎣?

[Cor]

I feel like I am missing something here.   I say that because the problem that you have is the line touching your hand when under load.   I accept this may become serious on a long fight with strong fish and perhaps more so with braid.
All my rods and most of my friends are built with the reel on top and a fairly long gap between the reel and the first guide.    Although I go out of my way to build a rod in a way that will keep the line away from the but or a hand as much as is possible, quite a few of my rods have line cuts on the front of the but.     Proves that it is not always successful to achieve that goal.

Now here is the thing I don't understand, I have never really had my hand cut or even hurt by line touching it.   In fact it has never really bothered me that I can ever remember.   Why is this?

I can only think it has to do with the way in which we fish.  Maybe its the way the Halibut fights, I unfortunately have no experience.  I move and swap my hands a lot when fighting a strong fish and also open my hands by keeping my thumb away from under the line, as in the photo.    Perhaps my rods are stronger in the rear and thereby keep the line away, but I've already said that some do touch my hand sometimes but I guess it does not really bother me.

[gstours]

Yes.  Thanks,      Your picture shows that the rod is simply laying in a cupped hand.  If a harness, gimbal is used it seems that this will work.   Off times the heavily loaded rod is handed off to a guest or helper to get around obstacles,  things get out of control quickly.     
  The height of the guide is half of the quest.  For spiral wrap rods the transition from top to bottom of rod should be in as short of space as possible to get the full benefit of the change in dynamics.
  It seems?🤔🐟🤔

[boon]

I have not yet accepted the idea of cocking the first guide to the right in order to go left in the transition layout.
 

For what it's worth, the conventional wisdom is to clock the second guide to the right, not the first.

It's accepted wisdom by several rod builders, do you have a particular objection to it?

[Jeri]

On a stand up rod, the use of a Low Rider is an inspired choice to get the elevation of the line away from the handle, though the benefits of the additional insert is just a couple of millimetres in lift, so I would question the benefit, over say pushing the guide even closer to the handle or even underwrapping the guide for that little extra lift. Very fine tuning. Had a very light weight stand up built with Low Riders throughout, it worked a dream.

The only other alternative for such a high lift guide is the 16M Low Rider, but not as high as the 20.

From the few spiral wrapped rods we have done, albeit for casting on surf rods, we just set the first guide about 5 degrees to the left for the left hand spiral - not much, but started it in the right direction. Then 45 degree increments for the rest of the transition. Never any problems with that set up. Realistically, you are always going to have to get a thumb involved in laying the line, so anything otherwise is not really a factor.

Just my penny worth.........