alan tani @ alantani.com fishing reel repair rebuild tutorial Manufacturer Concerns?
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drewtiger13
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« on: May 01, 2021, 11:18:08 PM »

has anyone else been seeing some changes in what products or information business in our market are offering that we (all fishermen) should maybe be concerned about? Meaning should we be beginning to talk with everyone (ourselves, manufacturers, etc) about these matters?
one example to start us off: DISAPPEARING EQUIPMENT AND THE INFORMATION THAT USED TO BE AVAILABLE ABOUT IT.
 I am a believer in classic round fishing reels for several reasons but to be brief I've noticed recently not only fewer and fewer products at this type being offered but when I have gone to the website of one manufacturer I not only found fewer models but many models flagged as out of stock, and, even more disturbing, the COMPLETE DISAPPEARANCE of ANY INFORMATION ABOUT PRODUCTS NOT CURRENTLY ON OFFER from all of their sites including the support and maintenance Pages where one used to find part numbers and so on!  This was the site for ABU Garcia, many models of which have been off the market for many years yet they have been able to provide support documents part numbers Etc for all of them. I was wondering if perhaps they were foundering, & perhaps would be disappearing, but then why bother removing extant info?
parent corp site: https://about.purefishing.com/our-brands/
« Last Edit: May 01, 2021, 11:19:08 PM by drewtiger13 » Logged
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« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2021, 12:59:42 AM »

Simply put .You are RIGHT as Rain  .
The take over,buy outs, etc. of Good Long Gone Reel Companies is nothing new  .
They take over sell off all the old stuff and start making New HIGH PRICED LOW GRADE Crap and do away with any thing we Real REEL GUYS would want along with all the info. 
Fortunately this site as well as a few others  are saving a lot of stuff .
Parts as well are out there just gotta search and many members here have stores of old and NOS stuff .
These TAKE OVER Companies are only interested in selling New CRAP then not service them and run out of parts Quick ...lol
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« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2021, 06:59:24 AM »

As soon as Pure Fishing takes over things start to change for the worse.  Have a look at the list of their brands.  They're going to own everything before it's over.

It's not really pure fishing, it's pure business.
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philaroman
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« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2021, 01:49:59 PM »

Pure Fishing took all the Howald out of Ugly, & all the prestige (and, glass) out of Fenwick & Abu...  that's just, PURE EVIL!!!
(I have a PRC Cardinal (252?) that's essentially a downgraded Okuma -- parts swap right over)
« Last Edit: May 02, 2021, 01:56:29 PM by philaroman » Logged
foakes
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« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2021, 05:24:32 PM »

Yes, as others have said — you are 100% correct about the majority of reel companies of the last 30 years, or so.

Unfortunately, this is true of ABU, Daiwa, Shimano, and nearly all others.

Exceptions would be some solid firms such as Penn, Accurate, Okuma to a certain extent, and a couple of other smaller makers.

Then…most folks don’t realize that the majority of modern reels are made of graphite’s & plastics.  They are shiny and alluring to a younger generation of anglers who are used to replacing things every few years — our disposable economy.

Plus, hundreds of reel brands with alluring colors and fancy names — are put together using (4) major parts suppliers headquartered in the PRC (China).  Bearings, spools, shafts, cranks, bails, frames, etc..  They all buy from the same sources — from the low bidder as a supplier for their latest and greatest new reel.

There are few, if any reliable schematics or parts availability for these marvelous reels from the beginning — let alone a year or two down the road.  Just lumps of junk for the landfill.

After doing repairs and restorations on quality reels for well over 40 years — I approach things a little differently.

I specialize in reels I know to be of superior quality.  These would be reels produced prior to the 90’s.

Find the ones you like, restore and service them to new condition.  Fish them for the rest of your life.

Sometimes, we just need to take charge of what we can control — instead of trying to control what we cannot fix.

It is easier to be a sheep than an owl.  But the owl flies solo every night — seldom detected, an effective hunter, and reliably on the job.

Thanks for pointing out your thoughts!

Best, Fred
« Last Edit: May 02, 2021, 05:52:34 PM by foakes » Logged

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D-A-M Quick, Penn, Mitchell, and ABU/Zebco Cardinals

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« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2021, 06:22:44 PM »

I was checking the Shimano site for current 600 Tekota schematics as a couple part numbers have changed from my older schematics. Went to the site and the 500 and 600 round original Tekotas are not even listed on the site. The 300, 700 and 800s are. I got an email stating the current models are the TEK HG and a copy of the schematics for the "old" 5 and 600 TEK models.
I really can't see them dropping the conventional reel for the low profile. The HG are no where as robust. I just worked on one and was not impressed. Lots of plastic and the overall design and feel  just didn't impress me at all.

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« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2021, 02:52:40 PM »

   It's not hard to see what Pure Fishing is doing. The 4600 is no longer listed on the Abu website and the other Swedish built reels are listed as out of stock though some are available through their vendors.More of the Penn parts are listed as unavailable and they are now pushing a couple of low profile baitcasters. The Mitchell line has been thinned down to nothing,Ugly Stick has been separated from Shakespeare. Pure Fishing will soon be one big blob of plastic junk. Most of the anti-trust laws were diluted or eliminated in the 80's and it's coming back to bite us.
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« Reply #7 on: May 03, 2021, 11:09:29 PM »

In regards to Pure Fishing (and Shakespeare) which are both here in my neck of the woods, the info below is from a bit a research which I had previously posted in a forum here a couple or so years ago (but deleted it as I wasn't sure it was pertinent to the original thread topic).  Considering the rate that manufacturing companies change ownership I'm not sure if it's all still accurate, but fwiw here it is anyway.  Any corrections are welcome.

As holding companies and corporate owners go there are more than one, with Newell at the very top and their holdings include way more than fishing manufacturers:
--Newell Brands owns Jarden.
--Jarden owns Pure Fishing.
--Shakespeare is a subsidiary of Pure Fishing.

Brands & ownership can be interchangeable depending on whose list you are looking at.

 • Pure Fishing brands ---include Shakespeare, Pflueger, Fin Nor, Abu Garcia, Penn, Berkley, Fenwick, Hardy, Hodgman, Johnson, Mitchell, JRC, Sebile, Spiderwire, Stren, Ugly Stik, Chub, Greys, etc.,...

 • Jarden brands ---include Penn, Shakespeare, Coleman, Rawlings, K2, Ball, Mr. Coffee, etc.,...
 
 • Newell brands ---include Paper Mate, Sharpie, Dymo, EXPO, Parker, Elmer's, Coleman, Marmot, Oster, Sunbeam, FoodSaver, Mr. Coffee, Graco, Baby Jogger, NUK, Calphalon, Rubbermaid, Contigo, First Alert and Yankee Candle.


Pure Fishing & Newell, Columbia, SC


Jarden, Shakespeare & Monofilament Division (the old Shakespeare Monofilament Plant)


The sign in front of the Shakespeare plant had Jarden in large letters with Shakespeare's logo across the bottom in small letters.  The plant makes monofilament products for various types of industral usage, but does include fishing lines for unspecified "private labels."  At one time Shakespeare had a large parts department there (including Pflueger parts).
« Last Edit: May 06, 2021, 01:29:44 PM by wfjord » Logged
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« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2021, 01:58:24 AM »

I specialize in reels I know to be of superior quality.  These would be reels produced prior to the 90’s.

I'm inclined to disagree. I would be stunned if you can find a 90's reel that's even in the ballpark of the precision and materials in a 2020 Daiwa Saltiga. Or the power and strength of a Makaira Spin.

Sure there are plenty of low-budget offerings out there these days but you can't discount the high end stuff just because it's modern.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2021, 01:59:05 AM by boon » Logged
foakes
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« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2021, 04:55:00 AM »

I specialize in reels I know to be of superior quality.  These would be reels produced prior to the 90’s.

I'm inclined to disagree. I would be stunned if you can find a 90's reel that's even in the ballpark of the precision and materials in a 2020 Daiwa Saltiga. Or the power and strength of a Makaira Spin.

Sure there are plenty of low-budget offerings out there these days but you can't discount the high end stuff just because it's modern.

You may be right, Boon —

Exceptions to every rule, though…

I recall back in ‘14 — client sent me 2 Shimano Stellas.  One was in pretty good condition and just needed drags and a complete cleaning and service.  The second one needed all of that plus (4) parts — of which three were no longer available from Shimano.

Called Shimano for the parts — they said since these particular Stellas were no longer being produced or imported to the US — parts availability was also discontinued.  These reels were only 3 years old — and at that time, these  high-end Spinners cost a little over $1000 each — I then asked them if I sent the reels to them, would they repair them?  They kindly informed me…Sorry, we don’t have those parts anymore…

It took me 5 weeks off and on — to locate the parts from independent shops around the country.

It doesn’t seem to matter what a certain product costs — when the manufacturer decides to discontinue parts support — as a repair guy, or as an individual doing their own service and repairs — you are just Oscar Bravo (out of business).

This shows how quick manufacturers can change their operation style of good customer support and service —

This was an eye opener — as well as a far cry from the days when I would help out on weekends at Sporting goods stores — when the Shimano service reps were on hand.  They and I would fix anyone’s reels at no charge on those Saturdays — and if a reel was too far gone or time consuming — they just pulled a new one out of their van and gave it to the client.  This was at a few different local Sporting Goods stores such as Gary Alcorn’s, Herb Bauers’s, and others.

Best, Fred
« Last Edit: May 04, 2021, 05:03:00 AM by foakes » Logged

The Official, Un-Authorized Service and Restoration Center for quality vintage spinning reels.

D-A-M Quick, Penn, Mitchell, and ABU/Zebco Cardinals

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EVERYTHING is available if I have it —

I’m not striving to be the guy with the most parts in the graveyard
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« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2021, 06:14:11 AM »

yup, Shimano changed their approach to manufacture/service
I changed my approach to Shimano -- gave up on their new stuff, last century (millennium?)
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boon
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« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2021, 06:56:13 AM »

I specialize in reels I know to be of superior quality.  These would be reels produced prior to the 90’s.

I'm inclined to disagree. I would be stunned if you can find a 90's reel that's even in the ballpark of the precision and materials in a 2020 Daiwa Saltiga. Or the power and strength of a Makaira Spin.

Sure there are plenty of low-budget offerings out there these days but you can't discount the high end stuff just because it's modern.

You may be right, Boon —

Exceptions to every rule, though…

I recall back in ‘14 — client sent me 2 Shimano Stellas.  One was in pretty good condition and just needed drags and a complete cleaning and service.  The second one needed all of that plus (4) parts — of which three were no longer available from Shimano.

Called Shimano for the parts — they said since these particular Stellas were no longer being produced or imported to the US — parts availability was also discontinued.  These reels were only 3 years old — and at that time, these  high-end Spinners cost a little over $1000 each — I then asked them if I sent the reels to them, would they repair them?  They kindly informed me…Sorry, we don’t have those parts anymore…

It took me 5 weeks off and on — to locate the parts from independent shops around the country.

It doesn’t seem to matter what a certain product costs — when the manufacturer decides to discontinue parts support — as a repair guy, or as an individual doing their own service and repairs — you are just Oscar Bravo (out of business).

This shows how quick manufacturers can change their operation style of good customer support and service —

This was an eye opener — as well as a far cry from the days when I would help out on weekends at Sporting goods stores — when the Shimano service reps were on hand.  They and I would fix anyone’s reels at no charge on those Saturdays — and if a reel was too far gone or time consuming — they just pulled a new one out of their van and gave it to the client.  This was at a few different local Sporting Goods stores such as Gary Alcorn’s, Herb Bauers’s, and others.

Best, Fred

I have several Stellas, all of which are the '13 variety... and it does worry me quite a lot that parts for what are very expensive reels may be hard to come by in the future. On the other hand, I figure high-end ball bearings are a generic part, and the rest of the reel is less likely to wear out any time soon due to the quality it is built with. Fingers crossed, anyway. I'm lucky enough that I fish a lot, and if in 10 years I can't get parts for these Stellas they'll probably be pretty long in the tooth and due for replacement anyway. I definitely understand that for a lot of people not being able to get parts for a 10 year old reel would be very offputting, and honestly I'm inclined to agree with them. You look at the automotive world - getting wear items for early 90s vehicles is not a problem.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2021, 06:57:41 AM by boon » Logged
drewtiger13
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« Reply #12 on: May 29, 2021, 03:37:04 PM »

I specialize in reels I know to be of superior quality.  These would be reels produced prior to the 90’s.

I'm inclined to disagree. I would be stunned if you can find a 90's reel that's even in the ballpark of the precision and materials in a 2020 Daiwa Saltiga. Or the power and strength of a Makaira Spin.

Sure there are plenty of low-budget offerings out there these days but you can't discount the high end stuff just because it's modern.
OK, But you might mind that:
1. you are talking about 2 companies in the Orient, namely Japan and Taiwan, where business is still different than what has tragically happened in the US
2. Unfortunately, such companies for whatever reasons, often are not marketed or sold in the US, so i would say most [US] anglers don't have any idea about using or buying them
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« Reply #13 on: May 29, 2021, 04:09:21 PM »

Pure Fishing took all the prestige (and glass) out of Fenwick...

Uh-huh... which is why I'm so amped to have scored a nearly-pristine classic Fenglass rod on fleaBay for a mere 99 bucks! I'll be taking it with me in July to catch YTs (I hope.)  Cheesy

I love the old-school glass rods... sometimes I see these guys fishing with super-duper costlier-than-ever skinny things that resemble nothing so much as car antennas, and I just don't get the appeal. (Too damn old, I guess.)  Tongue  Undecided

~A~
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philaroman
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« Reply #14 on: June 01, 2021, 05:56:18 PM »

Pure Fishing took all the prestige (and glass) out of Fenwick...

Uh-huh... which is why I'm so amped to have scored a nearly-pristine classic Fenglass rod on fleaBay for a mere 99 bucks! I'll be taking it with me in July to catch YTs (I hope.)  Cheesy

I love the old-school glass rods... sometimes I see these guys fishing with super-duper costlier-than-ever skinny things that resemble nothing so much as car antennas, and I just don't get the appeal. (Too damn old, I guess.)  Tongue  Undecided

~A~

one of my best fleaBay steals was a "homemade Fenwick flyrod" -- $25.01 bid + about $25 S/H
got me a 12' Feralite FSH Noodle home-wrapped w/ early lined Fuji & short mooching handle

love a good modern graphite skinny stick, as well, but definitely cringe a whole lot more
if I'm pushing one past its intended limits; if there's any kind of side-impact or scratch to the blank; etc.

finally, to un-hijack, yet keep it relevant to glass:
there are overlooked gems, among all this outsourcing & cost-cutting
one that I often come across, is 15-25 year-old Korean glass
some budget Zebco/Quantum is nice tobacco reminiscent of Conolon, hidden under ugly paint & crap components
just lucked into $5 sidewalk combo: Korean Aeroglass FX-2550A rod has appreciated to >$20-40, used, on fleaBay
while the modern version of same model has dropped down to $15, brand-new
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