10' Suzuki special

[philaroman]

among my factory-made w/ well-spaced Fuji:
8+tip -- 10' Fast SSH 8-15#
7+tip -- 8'6" Mod/Fast SSH 6-10# & 7'6" Fast Inshore 8-15#

faster/heavier rods would need FEWER guides, if anything (12' H Surf -- 6+tip)

[boon]

If it works it works right?

I just noted Black Hole build them as 7+tip and wondered if there was any particular reason for building it that way.

[JasonGotaProblem]

If it works it works right?

I just noted Black Hole build them as 7+tip and wondered if there was any particular reason for building it that way.

There's a lot of right answers out there. Me doing things a certain way based on schools of thought that resonate with me doesnt mean other approaches are wrong.

A few differences can account for the different # of guides. For one, if I recall correctly the one BH USA sells premade has a rear grip nearly triple the length of mine. So I have more blank to cover with guides. In addition, I look at how the line tracks the blank as the rod bends to various degrees, and the number I went with was what I found necessary to get it where I want it. Also, a semi-outdated belief still exists that it's friction on the guides that steal power from a cast, when the use of high speed cameras has informed us the real issue is the line slapping the blank. But many fishermen don't know this. And those fishermen wanna buy a rod that looks like what they expect a good rod to look like. BH USA is in the business of selling rods. Market forces tend to drive the evolution of product design more than pure performance does. This is nothing new or unique to this company or this industry in general. I'm just glad they also sell blanks.

[ksong]

[steelfish]

I look at how the line tracks the blank as the rod bends to various degrees, and the number I went with was what I found necessary to get it where I want it. Also, a semi-outdated belief still exists that it's friction on the guides that steal power from a cast, when the use of high speed cameras has informed us the real issue is the line slapping the blank.

I recall reading some post from our surf fishing guru from SA, the one and only Jeri, he was saying (dont quote me but its what I understood) that we need to try to put the less guides on a rod but in a logic way of course, specially if you are using a high tech graphite blank, why? because you need to let the blank to do its job when casting, when fighting a fish, etc, the more guides you put on it the most restrictions you add to the action of the blank, but as you said (Jason) every rodbuilder think different, I have seen light 7'10" UC blanks with 16 guides on it 12 of them single foot and titanium frame but still a bit different style of build, while a short 5.5" casting jigging rod can have 9 guides to keep the line away from the blank but some guys would built it on acid wrap and put only 6 guides on it, so with that said, I think 11 guides on a 10ft rod are not that many specially if the last half of the blank is extremely flexible and you want a smooth flow on the flex all the way of the blank but maybe thats the reason you had to add a bit of weight on the butt to balanced it out.

[JasonGotaProblem]

I'd be willing to bet that my 11 fuji guides (of which 10 are single foot and 7 are quite tiny) weigh less than the 7 double foot guides BH USA is using. And probably create a rigid condition on less total blank length than the 7 double footers as well. But not having seen a completed BH rod I can't say that for certain. None of this is to be taken as a negative statement about BH USA. We're just talking about stylistic differences.

[ksong]

We were debating whether we use single foot guides or double foot guides for 10' Suzuki rods. We decided to use double foot guides as single foot guide might not be strong enough for big fish.

[JasonGotaProblem]

(Almost) finished product. Just gotta fix that gap.

[Jeri]

11+ tip seems a little over the top for a 10' long rod, we build a light surf spin rod, that is 12' long and find it is optimum with 8 + tip - casting 2-3oz lures. But then our blank is much more 'J' curve that what appears to be a 'very' C curve blank. Added to the fact that perhaps our J curve blank will suffer the first guide being near 58" up the rod from the reel seat.

Of the guides chosen, I think you missed the opportunity to try a more KR Concept design, rather than the conventional route that you have gone, a KR design might have yielded better performance both in power and distance. Our 12', starts with a KL20H, which is more than adequate for 25lb braid and 50lb braid leader, and yields very good distances.

I have noticed this preference for the US market preferring more 'C' curve blanks, than 'J' curve designs before - neither is wrong, just personal preferences.

[JasonGotaProblem]

11+ tip seems a little over the top for a 10' long rod, we build a light surf spin rod, that is 12' long and find it is optimum with 8 + tip - casting 2-3oz lures. But then our blank is much more 'J' curve that what appears to be a 'very' C curve blank. Added to the fact that perhaps our J curve blank will suffer the first guide being near 58" up the rod from the reel seat.

Of the guides chosen, I think you missed the opportunity to try a more KR Concept design, rather than the conventional route that you have gone, a KR design might have yielded better performance both in power and distance. Our 12', starts with a KL20H, which is more than adequate for 25lb braid and 50lb braid leader, and yields very good distances.

I have noticed this preference for the US market preferring more 'C' curve blanks, than 'J' curve designs before - neither is wrong, just personal preferences.

I didn't think I'd get the line to track the way it does with fewer guides, but you're right that may be a reflection of the curve of the rod.

I don't mean to be the guy who assumes everything is a conspiracy, but I'm convinced part of it is a decent C curve rod is cheaper and easier to make than a decent J curve rod. And the norm seems to be to convince consumers that the thing they wanna sell is the thing you wanna buy. Of course I say that immediately after having just purchased one myself. But I knew what I was doing.

Also I have a set of KLH guides starting with a 25H that I planned to use with this. But even with my first guide not as far up the blank as you put it, with the nature of the C curve of the rod under load the angle between the reel, the blank, and the guide seemed pretty extreme, like a lot of eventual-bend-causing load was being placed on the guide foot, so I changed course to a setup that allowed for a double footed bottom guide. I suspect with a J curve that load on the bottom guide isn't there because that part of the blank is still straight. Also I like those L series runners. Their foot is much larger, and the scoring makes it harder to pull out (I did a few tests).

I'm still kinda making this up as I go. This is all a learning experience.

[Jeri]

Given the very soft ('C' curve) nature of the blank, I would have thought a more defined KR concept use of guides would have yielded better results, perhaps starting off with a KLAG16H, given the lighter grade of lines to be used on the rod. These would have complimented the design of the blank more, than hindering the flow of the blank with heavy and twin foot guides.

On lighter lined rods/blanks, I've always found going lighter to be the more productive route than trying to achieve some sort of 'stiffening' with guides, especially twin foot guides.

[steelfish]

and.... where are the pictures of your rod?
how many guides did you used and which model of guides?


pics or never happened!!

Was delaying pics til I finish decoration. But it has 11 guides total. all Fuji alconites with the polished finish.

Still waiting for the pics

show us your rod amigo, we're not here to critique but to admire what other members create, personally Im interested in see the grips, reel seat and guides you used on this rod, I was interested on getting this same blank but recalled I have a similar 10ft rod already, it might not be as good as BH but for my needs it works perfect, so I dropped the idea (for now)

[JasonGotaProblem]

I've been delaying because I wanted to try to fix the seam on the picture before I show it off again.

I'll try to get something posted this weekend.

Y'all also got me second guessing myself over # of guides for it, but I don't think I'm gonna redo it for that.

[steelfish]

compadre Jason, so, got any pics of the grips, reelseat and guides of this rod?

I didnt recalled that you built a rod with those blanks, how its the performance on the rod on your beaches?

[JasonGotaProblem]

I'll take some pics tomorrow, but a part of me almost doesn't want to. This was one of my early builds and frankly I wanna strip it down and start over. Guide placement is good, my wraps look like absolute crap. This is by far the fanciest blank I've built on and I'm almost embarrassed to use it.

But re: the blank itself it's fun to fish with but I wish I'd gotten the stiffer 9'6" version. That 2oz lure rating is a hard limit. Above that casting distance really starts dropping. But its really sensitive and crazy light weight.