Winding cup - Cardinal 4

[Catching Nemo]

Hi everyone,

Sorry for being a pest... more Zebco Cardinal 4 issues / questions needing answers from the expertise here:

I noticed that the winding cup on a couple of my 4's are very slightly out-of-round at the upper lip--maybe the previous owner dropped the reel on the floor at some point.  So, there's a spool rub when rotating the plastic spool--just a touch of a spool rub.  But if I install an aluminum spool to replace the plastic spool, the misshapen lip of the winding cup is substantial enough to "catch" the rim of the aluminum spool and completely stop its rotation.

What is the best way to bend the misshapen section back into proper form, without messing it up (e.g., without cracking the paint, making the deformity worse, etc.) ?

I guess issues like this are difficult to identify in advance when buying from eBay or other remote source...

[foakes]

 Make sure the rotating head is actually dinged or bent — other possibilities could include a warped plastic spool or a bent spool shaft — or just a loosely attached or worn rotor that spins a little off center.

So, before attempting the body-shop work — the problem needs to be pinpointed and verified.

I am probably stating the obvious — and you likely have already ID'd the culprit correctly — but if so, this also could help others as they work on their spinners.

Best, Fred

[Catching Nemo]

Thanks Fred.  The spools work fine with no problems on my other 4's, and so spool deformity is not an issue.

I can actually see the dent (flattened portion about 1/2 inch long) on the winding cup with my naked eye, and how it catches the rim of the spool.

I'll do some more diagnostics, but assuming its the dent in the winding cup that's causing the problem, I guess lightly tapping with a hammer to correct the shape is my best option.

[Midway Tommy]

Be careful, they can crack fairly easily. You might want to warm it up with a hairdryer first. Don't get it so hot the paint bubbles, and use a small plastic headed mallet. I've used a short piece of 1" or so diameter pipe to hit because it has a little curve, rather than directly hitting the rotor. That way you don't need the plastic headed mallet.

[PacRat]

I've got a winding cup question for you guys. I've put aluminum spools on all of my Cardinal 4s. One of them makes contact with the aluminum spool but not the plastic spool. The aluminum spool only makes contact when the spool is fully retracted into the cup. It drags just enough to make a sound for about 1/3 of a rotation. If it were a plastic spool, I would just sand it a little bit but I don't want to mess with a fine aluminum spool. I've also swapped the aluminum spools around and they all make contact on this particular reel. The reel functions fine but the sound is annoying (especially since it's a Cardinal). The reel is silent when the spool is removed. I can see a small rub near the bottom of the cup. I was thinking of sanding some of the paint where the spool rubs. Do you guys concur or would you try something different first?

Thanks
-Mike

[Catching Nemo]

I've got a winding cup question for you guys. I've put aluminum spools on all of my Cardinal 4s. One of them makes contact with the aluminum spool but not the plastic spool. The aluminum spool only makes contact when the spool is fully retracted into the cup. It drags just enough to make a sound for about 1/3 of a rotation. If it were a plastic spool, I would just sand it a little bit but I don't want to mess with a fine aluminum spool. I've also swapped the aluminum spools around and they all make contact on this particular reel. The reel functions fine but the sound is annoying (especially since it's a Cardinal). The reel is silent when the spool is removed. I can see a small rub near the bottom of the cup. I was thinking of sanding some of the paint where the spool rubs. Do you guys concur or would you try something different first?

Thanks
-Mike

Sounds almost exactly like the problem I have, which I explained above. The only difference is your aluminum spool is rubbing near the bottom of the winding cup, and my aluminum spool is rubbing at the top of the winding cup.

[foakes]

You might try an additional under spool spacer (very thin) — or a slightly thicker single spacer.

The spool only needs to be raised a Mil, or so — and a mill won't affect line lay to any degree that matters.

I use Tommy's pipe trick on DQ, Penn, and Mitchell rotating heads also — I tape the pipe with electricians tape — and use a soft block of wood under with a Dado groove cut into it — or, on more delicate rotors, a piece of high density rubber foam.  The trick here is careful, firm, but not overly aggressive taps with the mallet.

Best, Fred

[Midway Tommy]

I think Fred may have forgotten that you can't use an under spool shim on Cardinal push button spools because of the main shaft cross pin. I suppose you could try adjusting the shimming where the the oscillation arm attaches to the main shift, but that would be my last resort since it would effect line lay. If the rub is only in one little area I would sand the inside of the cup as Mike suggested. Most of those cream cups aren't completely painted on the inside anyway. They sure won't rust because of the material they're made of.

[PacRat]

Thanks guys. I already tried moving the shim to the other side of the osculation block/arm attachment and that did help but that annoying little contact is still there but slightly reduced. The tolerance is just so tight on the aluminum spools but I like it that way. I'll sand some paint and let you guys know what comes of it.
Thanks for the expert advice
-Mike

[foakes]

I think Fred may have forgotten that you can't use an under spool shim on Cardinal push button spools because of the main shaft cross pin. I suppose you could try adjusting the shimming where the the oscillation arm attaches to the main shift, but that would be my last resort since it would effect line lay. If the rub is only in one little area I would sand the inside of the cup as Mike suggested. Most of those cream cups aren't completely painted on the inside anyway. They sure won't rust because of the material they're made of.

You are right, Tom!

I am more used to working on Penns, Mitchell's, DQ's, and such — You are the Cardinal Master!

Not sure when I'll ever get time with the organization of ABU/Zebco parts — reel builds — and backlog of reels to do for folks — but I have a few bins of old Cardinals to restore some day.

Maybe I will try some of the powder coating in different flavors on these?

Orange, blue, purple, yellow, tans — who knows?

The Cardinals are terrific reels.

Best, Fred

[Catching Nemo]

I think Fred may have forgotten that you can't use an under spool shim on Cardinal push button spools because of the main shaft cross pin. I suppose you could try adjusting the shimming where the the oscillation arm attaches to the main shift, but that would be my last resort since it would effect line lay. If the rub is only in one little area I would sand the inside of the cup as Mike suggested. Most of those cream cups aren't completely painted on the inside anyway. They sure won't rust because of the material they're made of.

Thanks Tommy.

BTW what type of metal is the winding cup made of?  Steel? Aluminum?

[Midway Tommy]

I think Fred may have forgotten that you can't use an under spool shim on Cardinal push button spools because of the main shaft cross pin. I suppose you could try adjusting the shimming where the the oscillation arm attaches to the main shift, but that would be my last resort since it would effect line lay. If the rub is only in one little area I would sand the inside of the cup as Mike suggested. Most of those cream cups aren't completely painted on the inside anyway. They sure won't rust because of the material they're made of.

Thanks Tommy.

BTW what type of metal is the winding cup made of?  Steel? Aluminum?

Aluminum alloy. The formulation varies a little from company to company, but they're all pretty similar from that time frame.

[PacRat]

I think I solved my problem tonight. I played 'musical chairs' with 4 aluminum spools and three Cardinal 4s. I got all three to play well with one of the four spools. I mic'ed the spools and was surprised to find a slight difference. I sort of expected it from the winding cups due to manufacturing and paint thickness. I like them tight so line doesn't get back there but if one of them annoys me I will sand it.

-Mike

[Midway Tommy]

I don't have much trouble with line getting getting under the spool any more. I try to make sure I have some tension on the line before I  start cranking. I learned that lesson the hard way many, many, years ago.