Avet SXJ 5.3 - Is there a Mag retrofit kit? (Or how/to mag it)

Started by Tuffecs, August 24, 2021, 12:41:59 PM

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Tuffecs

Very interesting perspectives on spinner/conv.  I've been using spinners for many yrs, but somehow I like conv casting even though the birdnest risk is there. I'll have to read that MXL thread again...just for the fun it. :D

Ok, back to my Avet.

At first, I randomly said I would use 3 mags ( 8 mm dia, 2 mm thick) as a start.  Seemed reasonable.

I checked the spin time on this set-up (called it SU1) because I wanted to see if it was similar to creech's spin target (post #42), which is to target less than 10 sec when determining a mag set-up.

Well, turns out this SU1 may be a bit too strong. As seen below, the spin time was about 4 sec.

_____________________

Avet SXJ 5.3,  Spool spin time characterization

Objective:  Determine relationship between mag resistance (mag set-up) and spin time.  This will provide an idea of how much mag to add or remove to get the estimated resistance on spool.

My non-scientific approach:  I spun the spool using my hand only.  Timed the free spool spin.  Did each set-up five times.  Times are approximate; eyeballed.

Mags used:  8 and 6 mm.  All mags are 2 mm thick.

Baseline:  zero mags
Spin times:  21, 20, 20, 21, 21 seconds

The following 3 set-ups all use 8 mm dia mags:

SU1 (3 mags, 8 mm dia)  See pic
Spin times: 4, 3.5, 4, 4, 3.5

SU2 ( 2 mags, 8 mm dia)
Spin times:  not tested (but can interpolate to get estimation of 7 sec)

SU3 (1 mag,  8 mm dia)
Spin times:  10, 9, 9 ,9, 10
-------------------
The next 3 set-ups all use 6 mm dia mags.

SU4 (3 mags, 6 mm dia)
Spin times:  not tested (but can extrapolate to get estimation of 6 sec)

SU5: (2 mags, 6 mm dia)  See pic
Spin times:  10, 10, 10, 10, 10

SU6: (1 mag, 6 mm dia)
Spin times: 14, 14, 14, 13, 13
___________________________

As mentioned, SU1 is too strong at 4 sec.

As you can see, SU3 and SU5 correspond to about 10 sec each, which is in line with creech's spin target of 10 sec.

So, I'll try SU5 for my first cast.

Using SU5 as reference:
- If I need more resistance, I could use 3 mags (SU4) at about 6 sec.
- If I need less resistance, I'd take away one mag to get SU6.  Here, we're going from 10 sec (SU5) to about 14 sec (SU6).

Next step: get out to the field and do some casting.

oc1

Yeah, you have to cast it to fine tune the magnets.

Taking a reel apart and putting it back together just add or remove a tiny magnet is not much fun.  Then, if the lure weight or rod is changed you have to start the process all over again.  That is the advantage of an external adjustment knob over static mags.  Homemade external adjustment gizmos are not difficult to make.  I posted a few of them here at AT somewhere and Beach Bob showed and add-on external adjustment gizmo above.  They are not worth the effort when you are not going to be changing lure weight or rod.  I always carry a back-up outfit tuned for a different lure weight.

With the reel on the bench, I know I am in the ball park when giving the line a hard jerk will cause enough over-run to leave a few loose loops, but not really cause a backlash.

creech

good luck Tuffecs!

dont forget to use the tape/spool trick if you want. might save you some aggravation during your critical testing.

let us know what code number winner is for you.

normally i'll have the reels set for what ounce lures i'm gonna be sending airmail, so i'm not really wanting to change magnets once i get them dialed in. and obviously any of them i can multi task and use any size for bait since i dont want to rip their face or belly off when casting them.

i'll have to agree with an above poster that the magcast avets are super magged, if they had  setting for 0.25, and 0.5, in addition to the 1,2,3,4. it would be better.

squidder/ sx/mx or my slosh reels i usually use for 40-80 grams stuff with 2,3,4 magnets tops.
jx/newells/penns i'll mag for 100 grams up to tady size jigs i go at least 4 magnets cause i'm generating so much spool speed.

Tuffecs

Tested my Avet yesterday during a fishing trip to a Delaware  beach.  I fished two spinner and one Avet conv reels.

On the first Avet cast (with SU5), got some loose line on a easy throw.

On the harder second cast, got a birdnest that was quickly fixed.   Hmmm....I thought I need more mag.

Did several casts throughout the day.  Most casts ended in loose line.  A couple casts had birdnests, but easily fixed.

Although my initial thought was that I need more mags, I had one cast that was the longest cast of the day.  Maybe 20% longer than my spinner casts.  And no loose line or birdnest!  Just before I threw it, I remembered to thumb it right after the release (ref oc1's comment about fast start-up spool speed).  So then I thought, maybe I just need a smarter thumb.  (Dang, I forgot to bring tape to do the minimize-birdnest-trick)

I didn't bring extra mags on the trip because I didn't want to mess with it on the beach.

Anyway, will add more resistance (SU2) for next time.  SU2 spin time is about 7 sec, vs SU5 (10 sec).

One thing I learned, I'm not a fan of Lever Drag for surf casting.  This Avet is my first LD reel.  I bought it because I wanted to try it out, especially with all the accolades LD has been getting.  I prefer star drag.

BTW, here's one of my catches (pic) of the day.  Juvenile sandbar shark.  The spinner caught that one...lol.


creech

Nice congrats on the testing. wow you guys have some really nice rock on your coast, like aquarium level rock.

i think the 7 second code number one you have might be the golden ticket.

ya it's a love/hate thing on LD's on throwing stuff far. Star drags like my newells/daiwa slosh still have my heart for beach and jig casting.

Breadfan

#65
Quote from: Tuffecs on September 10, 2021, 07:27:51 PM
I hear ya, oc1.  I'd like to see the mags labeled...for convenience...to visually see the markings...I guess it makes my brain feel at ease...lol.

Breadfan,

Looks like you're sold on the Fathom.  I was thinking about getting the star drag versions of Squall II or Fathom II 15 for surf casting primarily.  Maybe the Fathom II 25N instead.  Do you like your Casting Special better than the standard?

I've been doing more reading about static magging, and have not been hearing that static mag reels are all that great.  Seems like the custom knobby mag ones are way better.  Still, I want to give static mag a shot on my Avet.

After all is said and done, I would probably end up with a new Squall or Fathom. ;)

I have the Fathom SDCS (casting special). The differences between this reel and the older Fathoms is the new ones have upgraded bearings, more line capacity and a knobby mag. Not sure about the squall's CS reels capacity, other than that they also have the knobby mag and the upgraded bearings. I'm very happy with mine, I've always been old school and use reels like the Daiwa Millionaires and the Abu 7000's, but after getting this Fathom, I'm seriously thinking about getting 3 more. I fish anywhere from 2-4 rods at a time and having the same reels casting the same way would be nice. The Fathom 15 SDCS has more than enough line capacity for surf fishing and I think only the 12 and 15 models are magged. Unless you are after big sharks, you won't need anything bigger than the 15. They are really good reels and the drags are ultra smooth.

Breadfan

Quote from: Tuffecs on September 13, 2021, 03:51:41 PM
Referencing some of your comments.  As we mag a reel to control spool speed and minimize backlashes, we also lose some distance.  If that's the case, why not just use a spinner and avoid the risk of backlash?  Can a spinner outcast a magged conventional reel in terms of distance?

Backlashes are mostly from not enough experience. If you dedicate yourself to the reel and rod, you will master it. I can go for months at a time now and not get a single backlash. The mags are only for the windy days. No wind days need no mags once you master it. On my cast, I don't thumb the spool until the bait hits the water, if I have to thumb it right from the start, that just tells me I am casting too hard, plus it burns! You must have a fluid throw, bait and line coming off at the exact same speed. On top of it all, you have a winch in your hand that you can control the distance and where you want that bait to land. I switched from spinners to conventional while bass fishing when I was 15 and I never looked back. It may sound strange but spinners are harder to fish with for me, I would always get twisted line, reels that only liked certain line, tangles, ect.ect. One other big thing for me is if you get broken off with your conventional, it will not affect your casting distance and you can just re-tie and fish out the day if you have enough line left on the reel. Do that with a spinner and you've lost a lot of distance. But, it does take some dedication, and many scoff at that. I get it though, Spinners for the most part are easier to the average person who doesn't fish a lot or they just like them better, nothing wrong with that. They do have there time and place and when you need one, you need one.  When my daughter was about 8 or 9 she asked why her reel was different (she had little zebcos) from mine, I told her these were hard reels to cast, but she could try it. She did, she tangled it. Got the tangle out and did it again and again that day until she finally got off a cast or two. I went through a lot of tangles and a lot of line teaching her but she still uses them today and she's 21. Made me proud! Sorry to get off topic!

Tuffecs

Yeah, leaning toward the Fathom 15SDCS, but the comments in this tread put another reel in my head....Seigler.

Anyway, video of SXJ MC...going to see if I can do that on a few static mags in my SXJ  ;D


Tuffecs

Nope. Couldn't cast like the video.

Went out to the field and did 20 throws on SU2 (estimated 7 sec spin time; 2 mags, 8 mm dia).

Still had to use thumb.  A couple of easily fixed birdnests, and a couple of loose line casts.  About half the casts were good; no loose line or birdnests.

Will try SU1 next time. (4 sec spin time; 3 mags, 8 mm dia)

On the other hand, thinking I may need to go with larger mags (10 mm dia) at maybe 1-2 sec spin time.

Breadfan

Quote from: Tuffecs on September 17, 2021, 07:07:16 PM
Yeah, leaning toward the Fathom 15SDCS, but the comments in this tread put another reel in my head....Seigler.

Anyway, video of SXJ MC...going to see if I can do that on a few static mags in my SXJ  ;D



The Seigler is also on my list. They look like well built reels. A lot of cash but that is to be expected for reels built in the U.S.

Tuffecs

Went to the field today, and what a good casting day!

On a previous field trip, the SXJ had only two 8 mm dia mags (SU2 set-up).  Spool spin time was about 6-7 sec.  All mags 2 mm thick.  When I did the casts, had couple birdnests and loose line.

For today, the SXJ (w/ mono) now had three mags: two 8 mm dia, and one 10 mm dia mags.  For this set-up, spin time estimated to be 2 sec.

I threw 4 ounces on my new Berrypro made-in-china, I'm-really-liking-it, only $70 from Amazon, 11 foot, conv rod.

Did 17 casts, and got no birdnest!  One cast had some quickly-fixed loose line.   On all casts, I did use thumb though, but barely.

For comparison, I then switched to my Daiwa Sealine X20SHA (w/ mono).  This reel is stock.  No mags added.

Did 5 casts, and again, no birdnest.  No loose line either.  I used very little thumb.

The distance was about the same for each reel.

I was really enjoying the casts, especially with the SXJ.  I'm thinking...dang....is my thumb getting smarter?

----------------

Ok, for now, will use the SXJ 3-mag set-up (8, 8,10) for my next fishing trip.  We'll see how it goes.

I'm thinking though, as my thumb gets smarter, I may have to remove the mags as I try to get more distance...lol.

Tuffecs

#71
Quote from: Breadfan on September 17, 2021, 01:23:20 PM
Quote from: Tuffecs on September 10, 2021, 07:27:51 PM
I hear ya, oc1.  I'd like to see the mags labeled...for convenience...to visually see the markings...I guess it makes my brain feel at ease...lol.

Breadfan,

Looks like you're sold on the Fathom.  I was thinking about getting the star drag versions of Squall II or Fathom II 15 for surf casting primarily.  Maybe the Fathom II 25N instead.  Do you like your Casting Special better than the standard?

I've been doing more reading about static magging, and have not been hearing that static mag reels are all that great.  Seems like the custom knobby mag ones are way better.  Still, I want to give static mag a shot on my Avet.

After all is said and done, I would probably end up with a new Squall or Fathom. ;)

I have the Fathom SDCS (casting special). The differences between this reel and the older Fathoms is the new ones have upgraded bearings, more line capacity and a knobby mag. Not sure about the squall's CS reels capacity, other than that they also have the knobby mag and the upgraded bearings. I'm very happy with mine, I've always been old school and use reels like the Daiwa Millionaires and the Abu 7000's, but after getting this Fathom, I'm seriously thinking about getting 3 more. I fish anywhere from 2-4 rods at a time and having the same reels casting the same way would be nice. The Fathom 15 SDCS has more than enough line capacity for surf fishing and I think only the 12 and 15 models are magged. Unless you are after big sharks, you won't need anything bigger than the 15. They are really good reels and the drags are ultra smooth.

Does the the knobby mag on your 15SDCS interfere with your wrist?  I read that it protrudes out far enough to press against your wrist while reeling.  And some guys are replacing the knobby mag with a dial adjuster, the same dial that's on the 12SD and 15SD.  The dial (and screw) can be ordered, and it can fit in the 15SDCS with no problem.  At least, that's what I read.

Also, I read that the 15SDCS is mainly for competitors and people that really need max distance.  They make adjustments, via knobby mag, while the rig is flying through the air.  Instead, I'm wondering if the 15SD will be ok, but I don't want this reel to be the reason for me not getting my max distance.  (Frankly, I'm not really an experienced big-guy conv reel power caster). Thoughts on the 15SD?

I'm asking these questions because although my Avet is a really nice compact reel, I really would like star drag and some external adjustment dial/knob like the Fathom has.............or Seigler  :-\.

Tuffecs

Quote from: Breadfan on September 17, 2021, 01:50:11 PM
Quote from: Tuffecs on September 13, 2021, 03:51:41 PM
Referencing some of your comments.  As we mag a reel to control spool speed and minimize backlashes, we also lose some distance.  If that's the case, why not just use a spinner and avoid the risk of backlash?  Can a spinner outcast a magged conventional reel in terms of distance?

Backlashes are mostly from not enough experience. If you dedicate yourself to the reel and rod, you will master it. I can go for months at a time now and not get a single backlash. The mags are only for the windy days. No wind days need no mags once you master it. On my cast, I don't thumb the spool until the bait hits the water, if I have to thumb it right from the start, that just tells me I am casting too hard, plus it burns! You must have a fluid throw, bait and line coming off at the exact same speed. On top of it all, you have a winch in your hand that you can control the distance and where you want that bait to land. I switched from spinners to conventional while bass fishing when I was 15 and I never looked back. It may sound strange but spinners are harder to fish with for me, I would always get twisted line, reels that only liked certain line, tangles, ect.ect. One other big thing for me is if you get broken off with your conventional, it will not affect your casting distance and you can just re-tie and fish out the day if you have enough line left on the reel. Do that with a spinner and you've lost a lot of distance. But, it does take some dedication, and many scoff at that. I get it though, Spinners for the most part are easier to the average person who doesn't fish a lot or they just like them better, nothing wrong with that. They do have there time and place and when you need one, you need one.  When my daughter was about 8 or 9 she asked why her reel was different (she had little zebcos) from mine, I told her these were hard reels to cast, but she could try it. She did, she tangled it. Got the tangle out and did it again and again that day until she finally got off a cast or two. I went through a lot of tangles and a lot of line teaching her but she still uses them today and she's 21. Made me proud! Sorry to get off topic!

If you have to thumb early, you said you're throwing too hard.  Thumbing is best done just before it hits water.  Ok, so how do you get distance if you don't want to throw hard?  Do fluid throws with a longer rod?

oc1

I set my magnets so I can throw as hard as I want side-wind or down-wind without thumb.  But, I have to use a little early thumb  throwing a line drive up-wind.  I'm sitting a canoe with my rear end near water level so throwing as hard as I can is still not very hard..  Also, using a 10-11 ft twitchy rod and 1/4 to 3/8 oz bucktail.

Those knobby knobs don't have to stick out that way for functionality. There is a lot of unnecessary length in the design just so you can find it for in-flight adjustments.  Making a less obtrusive mag adjustment gizmo can be farbicated if you have tools.  I need to look at one again, but think you can just cut the knob down quite a bit on the commercial unit and smooth the edges.

Breadfan

#74

Does the the knobby mag on your 15SDCS interfere with your wrist?  I read that it protrudes out far enough to press against your wrist while reeling.  And some guys are replacing the knobby mag with a dial adjuster, the same dial that's on the 12SD and 15SD.  The dial (and screw) can be ordered, and it can fit in the 15SDCS with no problem.  At least, that's what I read.

Also, I read that the 15SDCS is mainly for competitors and people that really need max distance.  They make adjustments, via knobby mag, while the rig is flying through the air.  Instead, I'm wondering if the 15SD will be ok, but I don't want this reel to be the reason for me not getting my max distance.  (Frankly, I'm not really an experienced big-guy conv reel power caster). Thoughts on the 15SD?

I'm asking these questions because although my Avet is a really nice compact reel, I really would like star drag and some external adjustment dial/knob like the Fathom has.............or Seigler  :-\.
[/quote]

Yes, the mag does interfere with my wrist. I read many reviews before I bought one and some have replaced the knob with a flush dial that goes on the old Fathoms, Squalls and the even older 525Mag. As a matter of fact, the part is from the the 525. I anticipated this and ordered two 525Mag dials and two screws. Sure enough, I didn't like the knob sticking out and I changed it out before I even went fishing once. It was worth it. 10 bucks including shipping. Let me know if you need the part number and place to order from if you go that route.