TSI on drag

[JasonGotaProblem]

So far I've always put TSI on my drag washers. I soak them, let them sit a minute or two, then dry them off. I figure a lubricant that's generally unaffected by heat until you get well past the temp range we'd ever see in a reel is probably something good to use. But lately I've been thinking about it further. It seems many of the proponents of cal's also have TSI on hand for other uses.

So the question is how much better is cal's? Or is there something that makes TSI a bad choice for this application? To the best of my observation I've always had excellent results. But then if I'm always doing the same thing I don't have much of a control group.

What am I missing or misunderstanding? Don't say cals.

[johndtuttle]

The specifics of drag grease are greatly over rated by many that think some kind of miracle sauce is inside of Cal's (or some other magic drag grease) or they fret about "contamination" with another grease.

Its essentially just a synthetic marine grease that is used to prevent salt water intrusion into the washers as once salt gets in them it makes them "lumpy" and sticky. Underneath the washers is a great place for corrosion to start. Grease keeps it out.

It also has the added benefit of reducing "startup" friction so that you get a nice smooth drag at low settings too. Straight carbon fiber can grab a little bit down low.

The "dry drag" people say that at high temps grease starts to lube the drag and you get lower performance.

This actually matters only to people fishing for VERY large fish that take the huge high speed runs that heat up drags. We're talking Marlin and huge Tuna, not the smaller models most of us are usually playing with.

Heat in your drag matters to like one in 1,000,000 actual fisherman ie unless you are 12 days south of San Diego LR for tuna or parading about on a couple million dollars worth of sport fisher off the coast of Kona you really don't need to worry about heat.

That said, if you find that TSI keeps the water out and your drag is smooth you have nothing to worry about friend.

Other than thinking about it too much.

Cause damn near any grease for a mechanical application will do, and probably lard would too if you like the smell of bacon when you are fishing.



ps Cold does matter if fishing light leaders for your trophy in the snow. Then, better performing cold greases/oils improve the whole reel.

[MarkT]

Mmm, bacon!

[foakes]

Great explanation, John!

And in my experience — right on all counts.

For me, I use Yamaha Marine, Cal's regular Tan, Cal's Purple, and SuperLube on the reels that come across the bench.

Just depends on the planned usage for the reel.

Anything will generally work better than dry —

Best, Fred

[oldmanjoe]

   What Tsi are you using ..  301 or 321 .   

[JasonGotaProblem]

  What Tsi are you using ..  301 or 321 .   

Didn't know there were multiple. Per the bottle mine is the 321 edition

[handi2]

TSI on drag washers?

[jurelometer]

The point of lubricating carbon fiber drag surface  is:

1. To decrease the difference between static (startup) and  dynamic (ongoing) coefficient of friction.   The problem is that a dry surface pair has a much higher static than dynamic number, so you can end up with all these micro starts and stops at certain load levels,  which we experience as a sticky drag.

BTW: The coating of lubricant usually becomes the friction surface.

2.  To prevent contamination of the drag surfaces by substances that would increase the difference between static and dynamic coefficient of friction. Saltwater drying and leaving salt and other mineral crystals on the drag surfaces is a common culprit.  That carbon weave is  the perfect place for turning seawater into salt crystals.

There is no ideal lubricant that will do everything we would like:

Bring the static and dynamic coefficients of friction close together without dropping the dynamic number too far  (the lower the dynamic COF, the more clamping force it takes to acheive the same amount drag).

Maintain the same COF as the surface temperature rises from drag use.   Most lubricants will havev a drop in COF due to the drop in viscocity from heat.

Keep salt water from drying  out on the surfaces.

Stay where you put it.

A long service life with intermittent use (oxidation and grease/oil separation are common issues)

Not damage the resins in the center of the carbon discs that bonds the weave.

Not wear off the surface quickly.




A grease that does well in a marine environment, with a high dropping point, and a PTFE additive (more consistent COF) has been the most popular for the most demanding situations.

No lubricant at all is also an option.  It will require less clamping load for the same amount of drag, which is especially useful on many lever drag designs, a higher top drag number, and more consistent drag  as heat increases.  But the drag  can get quite sticky if it gets exposed to saltwater.  You also have to give  up some smoothness.

I believe that TSI is a thin film lubricant. A thin film lubricant  might work, or might work for awhile.  But the problem with thin film lubricants is that they generally don't last long in abrasive environments.  That is why bearings that are lubricated with the stuff need more frequent service.  And any choice  should  be evaluated  against all of  the  criteria listed above that are relevant to your usage.  My guess would be that once the carrier has worked its way out with just the film remaining, that TSI would not provide much of a change for the better, COF-wise, or at least not for long.

We get a semi regular stream of ideas for  drag and other reel lubricants,but since the lubricants don't change much, and the requirements don't change much, we always end up back with the same set of best practices, with some slight advantages or preferences between product a and product b in a given category.

And I will not add a bacon smell as a requirement

-J

[oc1]

I bought the Cal's because that's what Alan recommended after servicing a gazillion reels.  On reassembly, I start slopping marine grease all over everything and it gets on the gears and metal washers and my hands and tools and table and rag.  So, when it comes time to use the Cals everything is already greasy and cleaning them again seems silly.  Then, I put Cal's  on anyway.  

[JasonGotaProblem]

Ok so it seems like the general theme is that it should be a grease more than an oil for the longevity and keeping stuff out. I have some Yamaha but I think I'll go order some cal's. Thank you everyone for the clarification.

[jurelometer]

Ok so it seems like the general theme is that it should be a grease more than an oil for the longevity and keeping stuff out. I have some Yamaha but I think I'll go order some cal's. Thank you everyone for the clarification.

Another option  is Superlube with PTFE.   It is cheaper and easier to find than Cal's, and several folk here use it. It is a synthetic (I think that Cal's is petroleum based), has a high dropping point, and is the same viscosity.  Plus it is listed as safe to use with food processing equipment.    Cal's or Superlube can be used to grease other parts of the reel too, not just the drag.

Note that we are discussing lubricating carbon fiber weave drag disks here.  I have read here that some other materials may actually get sticky if not left dry.

-J

[RowdyW]

I use a marine grease for the drags from Dupont containing PTFE. It is almost identical in color (tan) as Cal's. I bought a 1 lb. can about 6 years ago for $7.00. I've been using it since.          Rudy

[Hardy Boy]

I've been using super lube for years on draw washers on hard working guide reels and its been great.


Cheers:

Todd

[JasonGotaProblem]

I've been using super lube for years on draw washers on hard working guide reels and its been great.


Cheers:

Todd

Which variety? It seems to come in a bunch of different flavors

[jurelometer]

I've been using super lube for years on draw washers on hard working guide reels and its been great.


Cheers:

Todd

Which variety? It seems to come in a bunch of different flavors

They only have one lubricating grease:

https://www.super-lube.com/silicone-lubricating-grease-with-syncolon-ptfe