TSI on drag

Started by JasonGotaProblem, August 27, 2021, 02:05:51 PM

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philaroman

don't remember how/where, but I got the impression that you specifically want
Teflon/PTFE -- NOT, Silicone!!! -- as the "slippery solid" component of drag grease

JasonGotaProblem

Ok now for the dumb question: having already used TSI on them if I wanna switch to superlube do I need to clean off the TSI first? I know it doesn't play well with some grease varieties.
Any machine is a smoke machine if you use it wrong enough.

redsetta

An evaporating solvent, like brake cleaner, works well getting any undesirable build-up off CF washers.
I think the silicone caution may come from some silicone lubricants containing solvents (like acetone), that can react with plastic/rubber parts.
Hope that helps.
Cheers, Justin
Fortitudine vincimus - By endurance we conquer

oldmanjoe

Quote from: JasonGotaPenn on August 29, 2021, 06:54:41 PM
Ok now for the dumb question: having already used TSI on them if I wanna switch to superlube do I need to clean off the TSI first? I know it doesn't play well with some grease varieties.
You are using 321 ,ride it out .   It looks good spec wise .     Be the test mule....
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Hardy Boy

That is the one. I get it in a 14.1 oz tub. Last a long time. Good on gears and such also.

Cheers:

Todd
Todd

tincanary

Super Lube makes good stuff.  I use their greases and oils regularly on anything but charter service reels.  Granted, all of the reels I work on never see a marine environment so I can't comment on how well it holds up to the salt.  I'm a big fan of their ISO 10 lightweight oil for spool bearings, the ISO 220 gear oil for pinion, driveshaft, worm bearings, and the NLGI2 grease for gears and drag.  They have a few more options if you buy direct from them versus buying from a third party.  With all of that said, I still use the Alan Tani method of Yamalube and Cal's on reels serviced for the various Great Lakes charter customers of mine.  Those charter reels see a much, much higher degree of abuse than the reels I get from recreational bass, salmon, walleye, steelhead, and musky fishermen.

JasonGotaProblem

I ordered some cals and some superlube. I suspect henceforth, other than being fresh out of penn grease, I will have enough lube variety.
Any machine is a smoke machine if you use it wrong enough.

jurelometer

Quote from: JasonGotaPenn on August 30, 2021, 12:49:10 PM
I ordered some cals and some superlube. I suspect henceforth, other than being fresh out of penn grease, I will have enough lube variety.

No need for more Penn grease.  You can use the Cal's or Superlube for regular reel grease as well. Cal"s uses nothing but Cal's when they service a reel. On my cork drag fly reels, I use nothing but drag grease to minimize the risk of cross contamination that might make the cork sticky.

If you service spinners, it might be worth finding a lower viscosity grease for some variety vs having several greases with nearly identical properties. Thinner greases will provide less winding resistance with  all those  spinner parts whirling around. Maybe also on  those smaller bass levelwind reels for folks that get picky about resistance. The thinner the grease, the more spots you can get away with not using oils.

The NLGI grade will tell you how thick a grease is.  There is a recent thread on this.  No experience with the lower viscosity greases on reels myself.  Some of the pros here that service plenty of smaller spinners will blend a grease with other lubricants to to decrease the viscosity.  If you ask the lubricant companies, they will probably tell you that is a bad idea - you have to know what you are doing to not degrade the grease properties.  Compared to actual powered machinery, the performance demands that a spinning reel puts on a lubricant are pretty minimal,  so blending does seem to me to be an option, especially if you use a blend that has been working for other folks here.

-J

JasonGotaProblem

All valid points. I'll fill in the gaps in my reasoning by saying that penn grease and penn oil mix wonderfully to give a lighter grease. I still have plenty of penn oil (since I have TSI mixing with penn grease is all I use it for). I've mixed penn oil with yamalube but it still retains that graininess I mildly dislike about yamalube in small spinners.

These opinions of mine are based on my limited experience and should be disregarded if they contradict anything.
Any machine is a smoke machine if you use it wrong enough.

jurelometer

Quote from: JasonGotaPenn on August 30, 2021, 07:35:50 PM
All valid points. I'll fill in the gaps in my reasoning by saying that penn grease and penn oil mix wonderfully to give a lighter grease. I still have plenty of penn oil (since I have TSI mixing with penn grease is all I use it for). I've mixed penn oil with yamalube but it still retains that graininess I mildly dislike about yamalube in small spinners.

These opinions of mine are based on my limited experience and should be disregarded if they contradict anything.

Your experiences are as valid as anyone else's, and add to the collective knowledge.  We are all learning from each other.

Hopefully you will give the TSI lubed drag washes a test run.  Might end up putting a dent in one of our assumptions. 

-J

JasonGotaProblem

Quote from: jurelometer on August 30, 2021, 08:38:53 PM
Hopefully you will give the TSI lubed drag washes a test run.  Might end up putting a dent in one of our assumptions. 

-J
I've been using it for the past 6 months on 4 reels that see a lot of use and 2 that don't see much action. It feels great, especially re: startup which is what made me wonder why others wouldn't be using it. but I'm pretty good about keeping them out of sand and spray and the ones that see the most use are FW only.
Any machine is a smoke machine if you use it wrong enough.

philaroman

#26
guessing S/W intrusion...  or water intrusion, period
CF surface is rough & it doesn't compress easily like felt, to squeeze out
oil may be fine as lubricant (as long as enough of it stays where put)
but it doesn't stick around as long, or fill the nooks/crannies like grease

Quote from: JasonGotaPenn on August 30, 2021, 09:50:04 PM
I've been using it for the past 6 months on 4 reels that see a lot of use

is one of those 4 still going unexamined on original oil from 6 months ago?
or are you still in new-toy stage -- tweaking, tuning, adding a drop here/there?

oc1

#27
Man, you guys make me glad I stopped using grease.  Grease is so mysterious.

A nice oil by itself is enough to make a bearing or a pair of gears run smoothly.  Right?  A nice oil will coat everything and stay put for a little while.  When a part is coated in oil it does not corrode or wear prematurely.  Right?   But oil seems to disappear from the bearings and gears over time because it is displaced by the whirling parts, or just drips off, or dries, or something.  Right?  So, the solution is to use grease that will stick longer and does not drip or whirl off.  Right?

Another solution is to just use oil more often and forget the grease.  When the oil starts to disappear just replenish it.  But, you say, that will mean more servicing.  Yes, so the service must be really really quick and easy.  If you do not have factory oil ports then you would need to drill holes so you can easily drop/squirt oil on the gears, the bearings, the clutch, the AR.  You end up with four to six holes to drop/squirt oil into.  But, it only takes abut fifteen to thirty seconds to drop/squirt oil into all the holes.  You have to "service" your reel a lot.  Service is probably needed every trip.  That is a lot of oil.  It takes so much oil that it might even drip out sometime.  But, that's OK.  It is carrying grunge with it.  

Now do the math.  How much time does it take you to crack open a reel, clean it, relube, and do the usual routine?  How often do you need to do it?  What is the maintenance time per year or per hour of fishing?  For me, frequently oiling without grease is easier and saves time.

I'm a conventional baitcaster.  What I do is pretty much what all baitcasters did a hundred years ago.   Everybody had an oiler in the tackle box.

tincanary

Quote from: oc1 on August 31, 2021, 06:00:05 AM
Man, you guys make me glad I stopped using grease.  Grease is so mysterious.

A nice oil by itself is enough to make a bearing or a pair of gears run smoothly.  Right?  A nice oil will coat everything and stay put for a little while.  When a part is coated in oil it does not corrode or wear prematurely.  Right?   But oil seems to disappear from the bearings and gears over time because it is displaced by the whirling parts, or just drips off, or dries, or something.  Right?  So, the solution is to use grease that will stick longer and does not drip or whirl off.  Right?

Another solution is to just use oil more often and forget the grease.  When the oil starts to disappear just replenish it.  But, you say, that will mean more servicing.  Yes, so the service must be really really quick and easy.  If you do not have factory oil ports then you would need to drill holes so you can easily drop/squirt oil on the gears, the bearings, the clutch, the AR.  You end up with four to six holes to drop/squirt oil into.  But, it only takes abut fifteen to thirty seconds to drop/squirt oil into all the holes.  You have to "service" your reel a lot.  Service is probably needed every trip.  That is a lot of oil.  It takes so much oil that it might even drip out sometime.  But, that's OK.  It is carrying grunge with it.  

Now do the math.  How much time does it take you to crack open a reel, clean it, relube, and do the usual routine?  How often do you need to do it?  What is the maintenance time per year or per hour of fishing?  For me, frequently oiling without grease is easier and saves time.

I'm a conventional baitcaster.  What I do is pretty much what all baitcasters did a hundred years ago.   Everybody had an oiler in the tackle box.

I think you're on to something here.  I know a lot of reels have a lube port.  That port isn't big, can't stick an acid brush in there to get at the gears, but you sure can stick an oiler in there.  Oil is cheap and easy to apply, and doesn't require an assortment of tools to apply on the water.

JasonGotaProblem

Quote from: philaroman on August 30, 2021, 10:14:42 PM

is one of those 4 still going unexamined on original oil from 6 months ago?
or are you still in new-toy stage -- tweaking, tuning, adding a drop here/there?
Sort of both. I used it on the new carbon drags in my SS700 which has seen both SW and FW use. And truthfully I have not opened the drag since then, despite doing a full interior service after it saw a few good salt splashes a few months ago. So I'll crack open the drag assembly this evening and take some pics in the name of science. (Salt crystal presence would disprove viability of TSI on drags, but clean drags on this reel wouldn't necessarily be conclusive confirmation).
Any machine is a smoke machine if you use it wrong enough.