Setting the drag with a scale....

[pjstevko]

When setting the drag on a ld reel is it necessary to have it mounted on a rod with line through the guides?

This will be my first time setting my drags with a scale so any tips on doing it correctly will be greatly appreciated

Pj

[MarkT]

I do it that way. I want to know what the drag will be when I'm using it.

[pjstevko]

Any tips on the actual process on how it's done? I've never done this and only watched a couple videos

[bill19804]

mount reel,  thread  rod  with  line,  tie  scale  to  something  solid,  attach  line  to  scale  hook  with  loop  or  knot.

back off  20-40  feet reel  line  tight   and  try to  back  up  holding  rod in  fighting  position

and  dont buy into  the  fable  of  50  lbs  drag.  ya  gotta  be  harnessed  in  chair  to use  that  much
free  standing  30 lbs  is  about  limit for  normal  human  for  20  minute  fight.

[alantani]

i use a straight pull off the reel.  it's easier and generally safer.  just add 10% to account for pressure from the guides. 

[Vintage Offshore Tackle]

PJ, you probably already know this, but it's easiest to use a scale that has an indicator that sticks at the maximum amount.

[steelfish]

i use a straight pull off the reel.  it's easier and generally safer.  just add 10% to account for pressure from the guides. 

hmm nice to know, I normally test the reels I repair that same way, direct pull and read the drag on the scale, from now I will add that 10%

[philaroman]

Alex,

10% sounds good for a heavier reel, on shorter heavier rod, w/ fewer guides (some roller?)

the difference is much more drastic w/ lighter drag settings & long, light rods (like your rock-jumping Predator)
w/ friction from 2X-3X as many guides & more/more drastic line-angle changes under load

[jurelometer]

Short version:   Just set it at the reel.  Or you can set it off the rod if your rod is already strung up. The recommended settings are just big round numbers anyways.

Long version [Science trigger warning ]


If you are setting for the amount of force that you are putting on the reel, just set it off the reel.  There is a maximum capacity that you want to inflict on your reel, and  guide friction won't affect this. 

If you are setting the drag for the amount of force that the fish will feel... just set it off the reel     There are too many variables involved to worry about hitting an exact number.

Friction in a fluid is different than solid surface to solid surface friction.  In a fluid, friction is a function of surface area. And fluid friction along a surface can be significant, but fluid that has to move around a surface is usually going to generate more friction.  Before the reel encounters any load, the fish has to pull hard enough to overcome the friction of the line against the water, which can be substantial, especially if the line has to be pulled against the cross section (i.e. not a straight non-curved line from fish to surface).  And of course, the same thing happens in the opposite direction when you pull on the fish. Might not matter much with 20 feet of microbraid in a stillwater pond, but it is going to be a big deal with a couple hundred yards tied to a speeding tuna in an ocean current.

More line out, more bow on the line, fish moving  faster or changing direction; all these cause  the resistance on the fish to go up. The "drag" at the fishes end is changing all the time regardless of your reel's drag setting.  And greater line diameter means greater surface area for friction.  So the fish will have to pull harder to spin the drag at the same drag setting if you change your spectra main line to mono topshot from a  short thin topshot to a long thick topshot. 


And of course, as the line on spool diameter decreases as line is let out, the drag at the reel  increases proportionately, so if your line-on-spool diameter  has decreased by 10%, drag resistance at  the reel has just gone up by 10%.

This is not to say that setting a drag with a scale is not useful, but rather that trying to hit a high level of accuracy for a specific setting  is a bit pointless.   Trial  and error from other anglers and personal experience gives us a good idea of what settings at what point in the fight are the most successful, and a scale allows for greater repeatability to set and stay within the right ballpark.  But there is a reason why recommended settings are big round numbers like 20 lbs and not something more specific like 22.7.   

While the actual amount will vary depending on the rod and the amount of load applied, I find it hard to believe that you are going to get 10% additional drag from friction of the line on the guides, as it would seem that amount of friction  might damage the line, and achieving that amount of friction would be difficult with typical setups considering the low coefficients of friction involved.  I am curious if anyone has actually tested this, especially with braid and ceramic guides.  I have been wrong before, but this 10% number seems a bit large to me.

Just the opinions of a science fanboy fisherman,

-J

[philaroman]

If you are setting for the amount of force that you are putting on the reel...

If you are setting the drag for the amount of force that the fish will feel...

w/ light tackle, neither... 
I'm guesstimating the point just before my weakest link fails
that's all I need to know when I leave the house
will certainly start, by feel, at lower setting & hopefully have reason to nudge back up

[boon]

If you're setting the drag based on the reel's capability (i.e. you know it will do 20lb buttoned down so you want to run 15lb) then do it straight off the reel. If you're doing it for line weight/how hard you'll need to pull on a fish, do it through the rod at maximum fighting angle.

In practical terms though, you might have 12lb at the reel but 14lb at the rod tip but that's with a full spool but you have 46.3 yards of line out and that's 22.451% of your spool capacity so drag is increased by 14.3082% and the belly of line in the water is adding 0.264lb of drag but your drag washers have heated up by 22.3f so the effective overall drag is now equal to the number of sockets in a Craftsman toolkit divided by the age of the angler, multiplied by the number of tequilas they drank the night before setting off.

I wouldn't get too hung up on it. The numbers all go out the window as soon as you put the line in the water, and doubly so once you have a fish on. Use them as a guideline at best. If line is going off the reel faster than you want, apply more pressure.

[MarkT]

Just don't forget to breathe once that drag (however you set it) starts to peel...

[Brewcrafter]

Boon and Mark speak truth....

[oc1]

I'm of a school where you fish with a light drag, thumb or grab the spool to set the hook and then start tightening the drag as you settle into it.  You need to have a sense of what it takes to break a light line.  A heavy line is more forgiving because the rod will pull you off your feet before the line breaks.  

I wish I could find it again because Daron once did a video of him strapped into a big Senator with his (younger then) son taking off across the yard with the line. He had a hard time stopping him.  From a standing position the rod leverage seemed to be more of a problem than the drag setting.

[Glos]

Oc 1, absolutely - diddly. I have learned that when I wanted to use 4.20 meters stiff surf rod for fishing heavy sinkers, catfish.
It wears you down just to reel in the 250 grams sinkers, out of strong current - river.