47sh and 27sh upgrades

Started by JasonGotaProblem, March 25, 2022, 08:40:51 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Porthos


JasonGotaProblem

#16
Does anyone know if the 50H gear sleeve fits in a 47SH? I see there's a stainless version of the 50H sleeve, and the person I'm working on the reel for is leaning toward overkill. He heard a rumor that these metal frame workhorses can handle far more than factory supplied drag and wants to see if I can get it over 20# usable drag. I said I'd see what I can do.

Carbon drags for both just arrived today. I kinda wish Bryan had an ultimate kit for these.

Also I noticed that the stock drag had 3 washers, this kit has 4, and one is a different material and slightly smaller. Where does that one go?
Any machine is a smoke machine if you use it wrong enough.

alantani

the small washer likely goes under the main gear.  for gear sleeves, i doubt it.  i'll see if i can dig up schematics later, but that would give you your answer. 
send me an email at alantani@yahoo.com for questions!

JasonGotaProblem

Quote from: alantani on April 11, 2022, 04:51:35 PMthe small washer likely goes under the main gear.  for gear sleeves, i doubt it.  i'll see if i can dig up schematics later, but that would give you your answer. 
Under the main was my guess as well. Is it replacing the washer the schematic shows there?
Problem is the schematics list the whole bridge as an assembly. Similar to how my BG lists the main/pinion as one part # even though it's 2 parts. That was the first thing I checked.
Any machine is a smoke machine if you use it wrong enough.

alantani

chances are that you have a hard fiber washer under the main gear and felt drag washers inside the main gear.  all four of these washers get tossed and replaced with greased carbon fiber. 
send me an email at alantani@yahoo.com for questions!

Porthos

Quote from: JasonGotaProblem on April 11, 2022, 03:18:05 PM...wants to see if I can get it over 20# usable drag. I said I'd see what I can do...

Personally, I wouldn't go there. The 300H is a beefier reel than the 47SH with a lower 3.7:1 gearing than the 47SH's 5.1:1, and about 18 lbs max from full top-of-spool is what I'm willing to push the 300H's 3+1 CF stack for a 60lb reel (and only in a pinch at that). 20+ lbs would turn the 47SH into a 60lb LEVELWIND reel. The only current production 60lb factory-rated levelwinds are the Penn Fathoms 50 and 60...both being more structurally substantial than the (30+ year-old?) 47SH (factory rated to 20/280).

YMMV...

jurelometer

Quote from: Porthos on April 12, 2022, 01:52:52 AM
Quote from: JasonGotaProblem on April 11, 2022, 03:18:05 PM...wants to see if I can get it over 20# usable drag. I said I'd see what I can do...

Personally, I wouldn't go there. The 300H is a beefier reel than the 47SH with a lower 3.7:1 gearing than the 47SH's 5.1:1, and about 18 lbs max from full top-of-spool is what I'm willing to push the 300H's 3+1 CF stack for a 60lb reel (and only in a pinch at that). 20+ lbs would turn the 47SH into a 60lb LEVELWIND reel. The only current production 60lb factory-rated levelwinds are the Penn Fathoms 50 and 60...both being more structurally substantial than the (30+ year-old?) 47SH (factory rated to 20/280).

YMMV...


I would go there if your buddy is willing to take a chance.  Nothing better than blowing up a reel to learn a bit about reel design.  Porthos has some good points, though.  On a star drag, the gear ratio multiplies the stress on the drive drive train components that are likely to fail. And this is a gear sleeve style main shaft ( like the classic Penns), which has issues. 

But I would also guess that the levelwind would fail first.

In terms of 20 lbs drag, there is a difference between stopping a grouper in the first 10 feet and having a big tuna empty your spool.  So there is 20 lbs, and there is 20 lbs. 

-J

JasonGotaProblem

Well I could have taken the other one apart first to see how it all goes together, and if how long it took affected profit margin that likely woulda been my move. But this is my personal reel and this is a hobby. So I decided I was gonna figure it out.

And after about 3 hours, I did! Figuring out how the yoke went back in was the biggest struggle. Probably woulda been a piece of cake if I'd seen it intact before it all fell apart.

I swapped to carbon drags (with cal's), polished the metal drag washers, as well as the shaft that the gear sleeve spins on and all sliding surfaces of the LW assembly (and TSI'd the LW assembly) de-and-re-greased all surfaces and took a dremel brush head to the sideplates. TSI on the bearings, with some superlube brushed on them after.

The only thing I didn't do is take an after pic. But then I never took a before pic either.

Went from about 3 seconds of free spool to about 40 seconds. I had hoped for better but thats life. I need to spool it up and test the drag. It's definitely harder to turn the spool by finger than it was before (yet silky smooth). I did add a thin brass washer to the stack between the top hat and the "drag springs" (which were assembled in the {} position) but I doubt that is enough to account for the difference felt.

Any machine is a smoke machine if you use it wrong enough.

Gfish

40 sec. Is pretty good in my book for a levelwind reel. There's 2 extra gears causing friction, relative to the non-levelwinder. Interested to see how well it casts.
Fishing tackle is an art form and all fish caught on the right tackle are"Gfish"!

JasonGotaProblem

Quote from: Gfish on April 13, 2022, 02:42:45 PM40 sec. Is pretty good in my book for a levelwind reel. There's 2 extra gears causing friction, relative to the non-levelwinder. Interested to see how well it casts.
Ok so I realize i was estimating, and not timing it. It's actually closer to 15-20 seconds. 40 seconds would be great but that ain't what I got.
Any machine is a smoke machine if you use it wrong enough.

boon

Quote from: JasonGotaProblem on March 27, 2022, 11:46:49 PMI'm thinking 50# braid on the 27 and 65 or 80# on the 47.

Bonkers numbers mate, I have a 27 and a 47 and I fish them as 20# and 30# reels respectively, and they feel about right there.

philaroman

Quote from: boon on April 14, 2022, 12:25:32 AM
Quote from: JasonGotaProblem on March 27, 2022, 11:46:49 PMI'm thinking 50# braid on the 27 and 65 or 80# on the 47.

Bonkers numbers mate, I have a 27 and a 47 and I fish them as 20# and 30# reels respectively, and they feel about right there.

w/ braid, that's like 4-6# & 6-8#, diameter-wise...  PLUS, it's silky
will sneak into & wrap around all sorts of unwanted places
Jason's numbers for running line & your numbers for top-shot, sounds reasonable

JasonGotaProblem

Yeah I was going based on diameter more than anything. I was gonna do a 40# flouro long leader (is that what a so-called "top shot" is?)

Looking forward to fishing it, it seems like a quality little reel. Crazy how cheap they can be found
Any machine is a smoke machine if you use it wrong enough.

handi2

Quote from: philaroman on April 14, 2022, 12:43:21 AM
Quote from: boon on April 14, 2022, 12:25:32 AM
Quote from: JasonGotaProblem on March 27, 2022, 11:46:49 PMI'm thinking 50# braid on the 27 and 65 or 80# on the 47.

Bonkers numbers mate, I have a 27 and a 47 and I fish them as 20# and 30# reels respectively, and they feel about right there.

w/ braid, that's like 4-6# & 6-8#, diameter-wise...  PLUS, it's silky
will sneak into & wrap around all sorts of unwanted places
Jason's numbers for running line & your numbers for top-shot, sounds reasonable

He did not mention the braid size. Only the drag he would use. Big difference.

I had people in my shop pull drag with their rod and reel connected to a vise and certified scale. Simulating a fish fighting situation.

90% of them were pulling 20lbs or less. Try it sometime.
OCD Reel Service & Repair
Gulf Breeze, FL

boon

#29
Quote from: handi2 on April 14, 2022, 04:11:17 AMI had people in my shop pull drag with their rod and reel connected to a vise and certified scale. Simulating a fish fighting situation.

90% of them were pulling 20lbs or less. Try it sometime.

This was a real eye-opener for me. Got some scales, pulled as hard as I dared on a few rods. Some were bent beyond anything I'd put on a fish and they were at less than 10lb.