New Project: Newell 500 series Carbon Fiber sideplate

Started by Black Pearl, February 16, 2023, 11:15:49 PM

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Black Pearl

This project is on the final testing stage. The final testing plates should be here next week for the final testing.

It is made with German carbon fiber.

I will post more details later.

Swami805

Do what you can with that you have where you are

MarkT

German carbon fiber as compared to other carbon fiber? Is German carbon fiber a qualitative thing?
When I was your age Pluto was a planet!

Black Pearl

Quote from: MarkT on February 17, 2023, 03:29:14 AMGerman carbon fiber as compared to other carbon fiber? Is German carbon fiber a qualitative thing?

There were two carbon fiber materials I could choose from. After speaking to my resource, he advised me to pick the German's material than Japan's material. German's material gives a little more strength on the plate.

JasonGotaProblem

I will be following this with great interest, even though I don't own any newell reels. A friend and I were arguing about carbon fiber side plates as a concept. So I'm very curious how this will play out.

My question, since you obviously have experience ordering machined metal parts: how does the initial expense compare to getting sets of metal plates made? How does the min order to make it viable compare?
Any machine is a smoke machine if you use it wrong enough.

nelz

Quote from: JasonGotaProblem on February 17, 2023, 02:17:09 PMA friend and I were arguing about carbon fiber side plates as a concept. So I'm very curious how this will play out.

I guess "graphite" has already been proven in Newells since they are so sought after? CF should be a step up from that.

Black Pearl

Quote from: JasonGotaProblem on February 17, 2023, 02:17:09 PMI will be following this with great interest, even though I don't own any newell reels. A friend and I were arguing about carbon fiber side plates as a concept. So I'm very curious how this will play out.

My question, since you obviously have experience ordering machined metal parts: how does the initial expense compare to getting sets of metal plates made? How does the min order to make it viable compare?

If you really want to know that, it might be good that you reach out to Bryan Young or Tom from this site.

jurelometer

#7
Quote from: nelz on February 17, 2023, 03:50:17 PM
Quote from: JasonGotaProblem on February 17, 2023, 02:17:09 PMA friend and I were arguing about carbon fiber side plates as a concept. So I'm very curious how this will play out.

I guess "graphite" has already been proven in Newells since they are so sought after? CF should be a step up from that.

Alan can verify, but I suspect that we are talking about the same thing.

Those plastic frames and sideplates in reels that are labeled "graphite" are simply nylon with finely chopped carbon fiber plus maybe some glass fiber mixed in. I think somewhere  south of 20% by weight. The more fibers added, the stiffer,but more brittle the part. More fibers also helps maintain dimensional integrity.

True graphite is actually a crystalline form of carbon -good for pencil lead, but not structurally interesting, so true graphite was never used. It has always been carbon fiber. "carbon fiber" has more of a cachet nowadays, so it is replacing "graphite" as the more popular marketing term.

There also is a process called forged carbon fiber, which is done by compressing chopped carbon fibers with a small amount of epoxy resin in a high-pressure mold, but this is currently an expensive, somewhat exotic process.

Manufactures purchase premixed, pellets of nylon/carbon fiber blends for injection molding.  Picking the right nylon with the right amount of fiber from a quality supplier, is one of the important steps for making a good part.


Hope this helps,

-J

nelz

As far as reel manufacturers go, they are calling "carbon fiber" the material that has visible interwoven carbon fibers, like Okuma's "CX-40 Carbon" for example. What they call "graphite" has been the solid colored stuff like on Newell plates. Please find it in your heart to forgive this simple consumer. ;D

jurelometer

#9
QuoteAs far as reel manufacturers go, they are calling "carbon fiber" the material that has visible interwoven carbon fibers, like Okuma's "CX-40 Carbon" for example.

I don't agree.  I think it is mostly marketing misdirection, as "graphite" seems to be falling out of favor with fishing tackle consumers.  It used to be that all carbon fiber rod blanks were advertised as "graphite", now nearly all are described as "carbon fiber".   But I do agree that they want us to think that there is a difference.

Since carbon fibers are so stiff, there are a limited number of shapes that are possible to be constructed from stacking layers of woven cloth into a mold.  The smaller the part, the more  difficult. I don't want to sidetrack this thread too much, but the layers have to be compressed from both sides, there is seam overlap to deal with, non- uniform thickness is problematic, coverage over aggressive compound curves on small parts, etc.

Not an expert on this, but have seen it done live, and tried to design a couple parts (I think a spool is possible). We can start a thread on this topic if you are interested, and maybe there are members with more  experience that could chime in.
 

From Okuma:

C-40X
Okuma's C-40X long strand carbon fiber technology utilizes a special blended graphite polymer. The carbon fibers in this material are elongated and reinforced, which creates a substantially stronger composite than standard graphite. At 25% lighter, 50% stronger and 100% anti-corrosive, C-40X translates into an extremely lightweight and durably constructed.
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Source: https://www.okumafishing.com/en/search/index.html?q=C-40X&type=all

In other words, more marketing techno-babblespeak that can be translated into injection molded thermoplastic (probably nylon) with chopped carbon fiber - just another flavor of the same old stuff.

However, they do claim to use real CF weave in the drag knob- :). This is a much simpler part not subject to complex stresses.

And to get back on topic, I think that compared to compressed carbon fiber prepreg cloth, classic nylon/CF blend ("graphite") would make for a functionally superior, and less expensive conventional reel side plate.

Hope this helps,

-J

nelz

I have a Helios HX40s spinner made with CX-40 Carbon. Never was a fan of graphite (plastic) reels, but fell for the marketing on this. Surprisingly, it lives up to the hype and then some. It's one of my favorite reels.

jurelometer

#11
Quote from: nelz on February 19, 2023, 07:31:56 PMI have a Helios HX40s spinner made with CX-40 Carbon. Never was a fan of graphite (plastic) reels, but fell for the marketing on this. Surprisingly, it lives up to the hype and then some. It's one of my favorite reels.

No free lunch in materials.  Aluminum is heavier and corrodes, carbon fiber weave is brittle, Nylon/CF absorbs water and is flexy unless you load it up with extra CF, and then it gets brittle...

But I do think that Nylon/CF does not get enough respect.  And I wouldn't be surprised if the more recent blends like the Okuma stuff and whatever Alan is choosing for the aftermarket Newell side plates are even better than the original "graphite" blends.

For small to mid sized saltwater conventional reels, "graphite" is the way to go for me. I like fishing more than I like taking reels apart.

-J