stainless aftermarket gear sleeve questions and aluminum handle blank question

[Wilmar]

Hey everyone,

I am trying to upgrade five jigmasters right now with a budget in mind.  They all have steel main gears and all have a three stack of Penn HT-100 drags - so about 15 lb max drag as far as I know.

My questions are:
They all have a carbon drag disc under the main gear currently.  I think some people put Delrin washers under the main gear - I am not clear about whether this is needed and what the Delrin does that the carbontex does not.  Is there a consensus on the board about the delrin under the main gear?  Is it a big deal or not?

As far as the gear sleeves go, as I understand it, Alan is no longer making these gear sleeves (please correct me if I'm wrong), but Cortez Conversions and Pro Challenger still make them. 
Is there a difference in quality between Cortez Conversions and Pro Challenger's gear sleeves? 
(I realize I need to pair the star with the gear sleeves' threads - fine or course).

Lastly, I've not bought an aluminum handle blank before - I am eyeing Pro Challenger's aluminum offset handle blade because it's very very beautiful.  How will it hold up though?  Is heat treated aluminum as durable/strong as the stock penn brass handle blades?

Thanks!  Chip

[Swami805]

Both make good gear sleeves as far as I can tell, held up well for me
I used the offset handle blanks too, so far so good. The one exception is on very narrow reels my fingers hit the reel, go with straight on the XN's

[alantani]

baby steps.  i know it's tempting to dive down the rabbit hole, but let's take a step back for just a moment. 

something that you do with all of these - go through the entire reel, scrubbing with an old greasy toothbrush, grease the screws, grease the carbon fiber drag washers and check the top of the soft brass gear sleeve for wear.  i replace the hard fiber washer under the main gear with a carbontex drag.  ok, now all of the reels are functional. 

specifically addressing the gear sleeve.  if you keep the drag pressure around 6-8 pounds, and the drags are greased, then you run a pretty low risk of damaging the top of the gear sleeve.  this drag range will work well for 30 pound test, and your standard spool will hold 300 yards of straight 30 pound mono.  want to add something at this point?  let's look at a nicer handle grip!

well, let's says that you want to fish this reel with a 40 pound topshot.  that means braid.  unfortunately, the gap between the spool and side plate rings is large enough that the braid can get caught.  if you can control the braid, then you might be able to squeeze 12 pounds of drag out of a 3-stack drag system, but a 5-stack is different.  the soft brass gear sleeve might hold up, but stainless is better.  the 4:1 brass main gear will hold up here.  this really is the practical limit of the the reel. 

want to fish 50 pound?  now you're looking at 15 pounds of drag.  personally, i'm looking really hard and a two speed reel by now.  you're getting beyond the capabilities of a jigmaster platform and you're moving well into the 4/0 113h senator range. 

basically, it's a 30 pound reel.  hotrod it all you want, but it's still a 30 pound reel.   

[Gfish]

The "under the gear washer": The original from Penn is some kinda simi-hard fiber type that allows the gear to turn against a stable gear sleeve, as drag is pulled out. Without it, it'ed be metal against metal. Delrin is like a high-quality version of this, with a lower coefficient of friction.
 A carbon-fiber, or carbontex, washer would increase the friction down there, but still allow the gear to spin. Increasing the friction there is a good thing for adding more drag pressure and would give you the effect of 4 drag friction washers instead'a 3.

There is no knowen to me, consensus on which is best; the delrin will give you smoother drag with less "start-up" friction, the original Penn fiber washer is factory fitted and cheaper, and the CF, or C-Tex, might be the best of both worlds.
I prefer an after-market 5 stack(has thinner metal and C-Tex washers) with a delrin as the under-gear washer. This gives me higher drag capacity, but at the same time smoother start-up.

This stuff is fun to play around with.

[Porthos]

Retrieving a load where the set drag releases at 15 lbs will be a WORKOUT with a 4:1 gear regardless of how well the components will materially and structurally hold up.

Bumping up to 18-19 lbs max drag would mean a 60 lb setup with a 4:1...is that a desirable challenge?

Above that to 24-25 lbs (which 6-8 lbs per washer on a 5+1 can attain) puts the reel in 80 lb setup territory at 4:1...uh, no thank you. Not even with a Magnum Jigmaster, which is a Jigmaster in name only since most of the Penn factory parts will have been replaced with aftermarket ones. Will also be at risk of shredding a CF undergear washer per Sal Ciarlante's experience.

Post #9 here:
https://alantani.com/index.php?topic=7525.msg64169#msg64169

[Wilmar]

Big thanks to Swami805, GFish, Porthos and, of course, Alan for your help!

GFish - great explanation of the delrin vs carbon fiber under main gear issues/trade offs/start up smoothness.  I understand it now after your explanation.  I'm thinking I will play around with the cf and delrin.

Porthos, yeah, I am a belt and suspenders guy, one gear sleeve is already rounded off.  I am just trying to idiot proof these jigmasters (I am the idiot I worry about).  And thanks for the link to when Bryan was developing the five stack drags for these - interesting that his testing included tying line to a tree and running away from tree repeatedly.  I think Elon Musk got started that way. 

Alan - thanks for the heads up on the inherent limitations of these jigmasters.  Important for me to keep in mind when upgrading parts.  As always, my best to you and your family. 

Swami - Thanks for that heads up.  I indeed have a 501 and a 99 size among these jigmasters - will likely be ok on 99 size but 501 with offset handle might not be my best idea.

Thanks guys,  This is a wonderful board.

Chip

[thorhammer]

Hey Chip, I think Sheridan was referring to an XN, not a 501. I have a Black Pearl offset on a 501 at home- will check this evening, but I don't think it bothered me and I have pretty big hands.

John

[Wilmar]

Thank Thorhammer.  Appreciate it. 

Chip

[Swami805]

Yeah 501 should be ok, I thought maybe you had a extra narrow kit