Circle hooks- offset vs non offset

Started by rscotth, October 02, 2012, 11:20:31 PM

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Mac53

#105
For bottom fishing around Fla/GOMex waters the VMC 3X Nemesis Circle hooks, 6, 8 and 10 have a large user base.  If you need a thick shanked hook that will not break then these may be what you are looking for.  The 8 is especially coveted which makes them so hard to find at times.  They have about a 5 degree off set and are deadly at what they do if you just let the fish eat then reel down on the taut line.  No setting, pulling etc is necessary.  

ez2cdave

I've been thinking . . .

I wonder if the use of Braid is contributing to hooks bending and breaking ?

Mono stretches and provides a "cushion", while Braid has virtually zero stretch.

Also, Braid, as it is typically used on reels, has a much higher lb-test rating than Mono of the same diameter.

Now, combine "zero stretch" and a "stronger" line with an Angler who can now exert much more "pulling power" on a fish or in a "snag" situation . . . The hook may now be the "weak link" !

Thoughts ?


Mac53

Interesting thought.  I think once you pass the break factor it doesn't matter if your using braid of mono.  The hook is definitely going to severely bend or snap!  The only sure way to remove the hook out of the equation is to use a thicker shanked hook.  The use of 2X or 3X hooks pretty much guarantees no break offs due to the hook.  This comment maybe more relevant to bottom fishing.

mike1010

Quote from: ez2cdave on February 27, 2016, 04:39:16 PM
I've been thinking . . .

I wonder if the use of Braid is contributing to hooks bending and breaking ?

Mono stretches and provides a "cushion", while Braid has virtually zero stretch.

Also, Braid, as it is typically used on reels, has a much higher lb-test rating than Mono of the same diameter.

Now, combine "zero stretch" and a "stronger" line with an Angler who can now exert much more "pulling power" on a fish or in a "snag" situation . . . The hook may now be the "weak link" !

Thoughts ?



I don't think that's a full explanation.  I've seen broken Gamas with spectra and mono both.  And, sure, mono gives a cushion, but so does the rod tip.  With most setup, knots should give out before stout hooks.

ez2cdave

Quote from: mike1010 on February 28, 2016, 04:54:19 PMI don't think that's a full explanation.  I've seen broken Gamas with spectra and mono both.  And, sure, mono gives a cushion, but so does the rod tip.  With most setup, knots should give out before stout hooks.

My thoughts are drawn to being able to "horse it" with Braid . . .

Very easy, for example, when you have a 15lb-test diameter Braid that breaks at 65lb or higher. Now, combine that with the zero-stretch factor ( even with rod tip "give" ) and it is much easier to "shock" the hook, possibly snapping it more easily.

ez2cdave

#110
I thought I would "re-visit" circle hooks.

(A) For fish that slowly swim up to a bait, inhale it, and swim off, I think they are OK.

(B) However, for fish that attack at high speed, "slash" at the bait, and then zoom back to grab a piece, "on the fly", definitely not, especially INLINE hooks !

I also believe that circle hooks should not be used with live baits.

WHY ?

Let's start with the "instructions" that come with circle hooks . . .

(1) If you get a hit, slowly reel the line tight.
(2) Do not "set the hook".
(3) The fish will "hook itself", right in the corner of the mouth, almost every time.

That is fine for "Type A" fish, most of the time.

BUT, a "Type B" fish, with its "high velocity" attack, Actually simulates a "rip their lips off" hookset, on the strike, causing the circle hook to fail to impale itself, most of the time.

Frankly, when seeking something like King Mackerel, I use Treble hooks, often 2 or 3 at a time.

All thoughts are welcome !

Dave F.

Treble hook rig for "Slashing" fish . . .


handi2

Quote from: Bunnlevel Sharker on December 05, 2012, 01:49:39 AMFirepro911, trust me if you would tie your own leaders out of 30 to 50lb mono you would catch more fish, and it would be cheaper

It sure would. I would never use a store bought rig.

I didn't like circle hooks at first but sure like them now for bottom cut bait fishing

Keith
OCD Reel Service & Repair
Gulf Breeze, FL

boon

#112
Quote from: ez2cdave on May 19, 2022, 12:56:50 AMI thought I would "re-visit" circle hooks.

(A) For fish that slowly swim up to a bait, inhale it, and swim off, I think they are OK.

(B) However, for fish that attack at high speed, "slash" at the bait, and then zoom back to grab a piece, "on the fly", definitely not, especially INLINE hooks !

I also believe that circle hooks should not be used with live baits.

WHY ?

Let's start with the "instructions" that come with circle hooks . . .

(1) If you get a hit, slowly reel the line tight.
(2) Do not "set the hook".
(3) The fish will "hook itself", right in the corner of the mouth, almost every time.

That is fine for "Type A" fish, most of the time.

BUT, a "Type B" fish, with its "high velocity" attack, Actually simulates a "rip their lips off" hookset, on the strike, causing the circle hook to fail to impale itself, most of the time.

Frankly, when seeking something like King Mackerel, I use Treble hooks, often 2 or 3 at a time.

All thoughts are welcome !

Dave F.

Treble hook rig for "Slashing" fish . . .



Plenty of billfish caught on circle hooks, which are very much "slash at their meal" types of fish. If the fish is feeding it has to "eat" the bait at some point - many of those "slash" fish will hit their target then circle back around to swallow it at their leisure.

I guess it depends on whether you want any hookset, however tenuous it may be, versus a good solid one, albeit potentially missing some hook-ups.

EDIT: When I fish trebles, which I only do on trolling lures, I get plenty of fish hooked in the head, gill plate, outside of the jaw, sometimes even in the side of their body... though I still land them. I also have far more hooks pull out than when I fish circles.

MarkT


I, and most others, fish live bait for Tuna (YFT, BFT) exclusively using circle hooks. If using a J hook, I fish it like a circle hook. That's true when using a J for Wahoo too. Yeah, I like crossing their eyes by aggressively setting the hook but that works best on Bass... not so much on Tuna!
When I was your age Pluto was a planet!

Keta

Quote from: MarkT on May 21, 2022, 03:52:48 AMI, and most others, fish live bait for Tuna (YFT, BFT) exclusively using circle hooks. If using a J hook, I fish it like a circle hook. That's true when using a J for Wahoo too. Yeah, I like crossing their eyes by aggressively setting the hook but that works best on Bass... not so much on Tuna!


Yup.
Hi, my name is Lee and I have a fishing gear problem.

I have all of the answers, yup, no, maybe.

A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way.
Mark Twain

oc1

It takes a lot of concentration and self-restraint to not gve it a jerk. 

No matter how good your presentation is, it is still going to look unusual to the fish.  It's not something they see every day.  The fish I'm after will usually take a quick bite to kill whatever that thing is before gulping it.

philaroman

if Circle, usually offset for harvest & inline for C&R
offset does more jaw damage & much more likely to gut-hook

J for fun -- I LIKE deciding when & how hard to set


UKChris1

I used to fish with a (very successful) skipper in the UK who would say 'Wind 'em on, don't pull their bl@@dy heads off!' when he saw the rod top nodding. Generally deepish water - 200 to 400+ feet - and sometimes up to 3lb of lead (we didn't have gelspun line back then, but we did have braid - dacron braid).

We fished J hooks for lures and for bait back then. I can't tell you what he said when he first saw my circle hooks but it was along the lines of ' :-X ...factory rejects on my boat!' But then he saw how effective they were, for bait, and stopped ranting a bit. Never tried them for lures though.

Point is that these were the original Mustad Tuna Circle 59960ST hooks and were not sharpened but used straight from the box. Sharpened hooks would not slide around in the mouth (or deeper) but would snag anywhere, leading to deep hooking. The blunt hooks would be drawn into the scissors and roll over the jawbone exactly as they should.

Catch and release - unsharpened and non-offset circle hooks
Catch and keep - sharpened and offset circles or J hooks (unless the offset leads to spinning and twisting).

Now I know everyone knows hooks should be sharper than a scold's tongue, but sometimes we don't always know what we think we know.  ::)