Jigmaster - Spacer Sleeve Dimensions

Started by Sledge, May 08, 2022, 04:11:51 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Sledge

Might I kindly request someone measure a factory, chromed spacer sleeve, and provide me dimensions?

I had ordered a stainless spacer sleeve some time ago to complete one of the original Cortez Conversions Jigmaster kits.  Dug out the kit and parts the other day after having been packed away for a move.  Unfortunately the outer diameter of the spacer sleeve was too wide to fit in the side plate.  Not sure if this issue is due to the ample material thickness of the sleeve, or a an extra-tight clearance on the side plate.
At any rate, I'm able to make a new sleeve this weekend on a lathe, but forgot to bring any parts with me to measure!  And can't seem to find a dimension for this part anywhere online.  So...HELP!

Wompus Cat

#1
If you are speaking of the Round piece that slides over the Sleeve or Post the handle fits on then it is the same for many Reels of that era HOWEVER there are different Lengths but inner and outer dimensions are the same . I have built a few  of these with Cortez plates and NO problems using the original Spacer .
With all that said it may be you have the WRONG Spacer /Sleeve,or by some unimaginable act of fate your side plate was cut wrong and will have to be Honed out to use the Spacer.
IF you are still around and post back soon I will disassemble one of  my Reels and get you the id,od, length of Spacer , and the od of the Cortez Plate where the spacer fits through.
But it sounds like you are pissing in the wind without the pieces you need there with you .
OR if you are talking about something else and I am OFF TRACK which Happens more than Not Lately  .
 Then

The Procrastination Symposium Scheduled for today has been Postponed

Swami805

I've had that happen with after market spacers, they fit stock penn side plates fine but a little fat for cortez plates.  If you're going to be in a machine shop shave it down a bit until it fits. If not order a stock penn spacer
Do what you can with that you have where you are

Sledge

Thanks for the replies.  I kept checking in hoping for someone to post, and didn't see anything.  Until just now when I actually clicked on my post!
My list of possibilities was really just that, thinking about what could be the problem. Highly doubt it's the actual side plate that's out of spec.  And it is the round spacer that slides over the gear sleeve which is at issue.  Comparing it to a stock spacer, the stainless part is maybe twice as thick as the stock part.  It slides over the sleeve fine, but the o.d. is too big to fit in the Cortez plate.  Did try a stock sleeve, and it fits just fine.
Wanted to use as many stainless parts as absolutely possible for this project, which is the reason for my choice here.  Already bought all the parts before packing it away for the move, and just now getting back to it.
So...any additional help or comments welcome.  Left for the weekend, and didn't realize I'd not brought any of these parts along until 100 miles from home!  Had an impossible time finding this dimension during my initial search...but was lucky enough to eventually discover a post right here on alantani.com from Brian Young where he made a sleeve for his own Cortez project:

https://alantani.com/index.php?topic=16596.0

The dimensions he gives are, or seem, mostly approximate, arrived at by trial and error.  And there is no specific dimension given for the I.D.  I think this will get me close enough to make a part turned from round stock, lacking any further info.  But won't know for sure until I get home.  Some actual measurements would be much mo' betta!

jurelometer

Been awhile, but I am pretty sure that the gear sleeve thread size is 13/32, so somewhere around .402-.405 inch  diameter for the gear sleeve diameter.  You need a spacer ID big enough to give you an easy slip fit over that.


Brass is a better conductor of heat than stainless, so a stock brass spacer might actually be marginally better for transferring heat from the drag stack to the star to the air.  But folks here like stainless parts :)


Both the ID and the OD gaps with the stock spacer are pretty generous, as the stock parts and sideplate are not that precise, and you don't want rubbing.  Sal sometimes  went for a customized  spacer with a tight ID/OD fit so that the spacer could act as a bushing (plain bearing) of last resort when winding under load to help keep the gears aligned.  He built a Surfmaster for me that way, but it required a bit of a break-in and some attention to  frame/bridge/sideplate alignment on re-assembly.  I am not sure that I would want a stainless spacer scraping anodizing off of a purdy Cortez plate, so I would sort of be inclined to leave some space on the OD.

-J

Sledge

Quote from: jurelometer on May 09, 2022, 03:03:52 AMBeen awhile, but I am pretty sure that the gear sleeve thread size is 13/32, so somewhere around .402-.405 inch  diameter for the gear sleeve diameter...

Just got home and pulled out the calipers to compare the part I made vs. the one I bought:

Used 1/2"x4" SS bolt for material:
IMG_20220508_170937_152_copy_1500x2000.jpg

The one on the right is my part.  I'll list measurements, left part first:

Length - .491" vs. .452"
Outside Diameter - .525" vs. .490"
Inside Diameter - .406" vs. .407"
Thickness - .060" vs. .042"


Left part = "Don't Fit"
IMG_20220509_223638_854_copy_300x400.jpg

My part = "Do Fit"
IMG_20220509_223703_933_copy_300x400.jpg

Not much clearance between the spacer and the side plate!  Shadowing makes it seem like there's more than actual...but enough is just right, so my guesstimating squeezed me by!  The length is a touch shorter, but I'm running the 5+1 drag stack from Bryan, so should be just about right.

I'll use the fatter spacer in another jiggy build with Penn plates.  And got enough material left from the bolt to make another stainless handle to finish out the Cortez like these two I did for Squidward and Cheesecake:
IMG_20220509_225142_853_copy_1500x2000.jpg
IMG_20220509_225452_624_copy_1500x2000.jpg 
 

Sledge

One pic didn't get inserted in the appropriate place, and I can't figure out how to fix it.  But it's there at the bottom.

jurelometer

Lots of flex in that Jigmaster bridge post under the gear sleeve.  You may get some rubbing when trying to wind under load when you use higher drag settings. If the clearance is generous on the ID, the spacer has some room to shift around, but with a tighter fit on the ID, it could jam up, or at least scrape pretty hard against the sideplate.  A single tight tolerance part on a loose tolerance device...

But your reel, your choice.  Glad you are happy with the results.  It would be great if you could post your impressions after fishing it.  We are all learning from each other here.

-J

Cuttyhunker

Besides the flex mentioned above, if the tolerance is only a few thousandths could heat expansion from a heavy drag bind things up?  Pretty reel.
Doomed from childhood

Sledge

Good points on the tight clearances!  The sleeve doesn't rub as installed, but it may very well under load.  I'll try to get it assembled today and do a function check on the drags, etc.  Worst case, I'll just make another one in a couple weeks.

Unfortunately, I'll probably never get to test the limits of this reel, as I live about smack in the middle of the U.S.  Bought it because the machine work is is top notch, and I like tinkering with mechanical things.

Cuttyhunker

Mystic will sell you one for $2.85   part # 9-60
Doomed from childhood

jurelometer

Quote from: Cuttyhunker on May 10, 2022, 07:01:33 AMBesides the flex mentioned above, if the tolerance is only a few thousandths could heat expansion from a heavy drag bind things up?  Pretty reel.

Probably somewhere around a thousandth change in diameter for this part heating up additional 150F from room temperature.  I just grabbed a random  online calculator,  but the proper way is to look up the coefficient of thermal expansion for the material (probably 304 stainless) and do the math yourself.  But that number seems about right.

In addition to the flex issue mentioned,  nothing in that bridge/sleeve/ sideplate fit is anything close to a thou tolerance, and the effect is cumulative.  So if heat expansion is going to be a problem, my guess is that we are already screwed.

Quote from: Sledge on May 10, 2022, 02:07:30 PMGood points on the tight clearances!  The sleeve doesn't rub as installed, but it may very well under load.  I'll try to get it assembled today and do a function check on the drags, etc.  Worst case, I'll just make another one in a couple weeks.

Unfortunately, I'll probably never get to test the limits of this reel, as I live about smack in the middle of the U.S.  Bought it because the machine work is is top notch, and I like tinkering with mechanical things.

Understand entirely.  99% of fishing tackle purchases are not exactly need based :)

Winding under load in real fish fighting position is where the challenge will be. Something about the biomechanics of winding in this position makes it difficult to not inadvertently use the handle arm as a lever to pull the gear sleeve off axis. A longer handle arm make for a more effective lever, both for actual winding and pulling off axis.  Looks like you are using the stock arms which should help.

BTW, you may want to pick a reasonable winding load to stop the tests at.  If the sleeve doesn't bind, at some point the gears will ride up against each other at an angle and shred.  I would probably start getting nervous  around 8 lbs of winding load. Sal (Alto Mare) did some tests on hotrodded Jigmasters pushed to failure when winding.  There is a thread on it somewhere. 

-J

Sledge

Quote from: Cuttyhunker on May 10, 2022, 07:27:23 PMMystic will sell you one for $2.85   part # 9-60

I have some spares...Penn originals, but wanted stainless for this one.

Sledge

Quote from: jurelometer on May 10, 2022, 07:36:34 PM...A longer handle arm make for a more effective lever, both for actual winding and pulling off axis.  Looks like you are using the stock arms which should help.


Cheesecake has a stock, counterbalanced arm.  Squidward has a stainless arm and drag star I THINK I got from Tom Hryniuk, but it's been awhile.  The handles are my own.
IMG_20220512_002158_444_copy_1500x2000.jpg

Got another curved arm like this one for the Cortez, and thought there was another curved drag star, too, but can't find it.  Thinking on it now, believe I'd prefer a power handle.  More parts to order... 😏