ABU GARCIA 6600C4 - SLOWER RETRIEVE PINION

Started by Cor, June 10, 2022, 01:27:52 PM

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Cor

I just got back from a days Squid fishing, the third day in a row with some very nice size and quantity!  I have always enjoyed the peaceful & relaxing day of sitting on the water with 2 friends and discussing much nonsense.

Our squid are seldom over 1 lb in size, but because I use 3  jigs it sometimes happens that there are 2 or 3 hanging on the line at the same time.    I use a 10 lb rod and Abu Garcia 6600C4 reel which are the right size for the job, except that the reel is unable to wind up even 2 large squids.

The reel has a 6:3:1 gear ratio and 76 cm (30 inches PHT)  retrieve rate.

As I like this reel for the purpose, I was thinking of improving the "torque" by fitting slower retrieve gears, perhaps 3.5:1 or something like that and perhaps a longer handle as well.

The drag is also fairly week, rated at 7 lb and that may also need some work.

I have no experience with the Abu range of reels but do know they have been around for more years then I am old and there are many models and I presume that there should be gears available to fit this reel with different retrieve ratios.

Anyone here that is knowledgeable with these reels and who could give me some advice or suggestions as to what may be possible?

Thanks
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Cornelis

Keta

What you need is a set of C4 Winch gears.
Hi, my name is Lee and I have a fishing gear problem.
A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way.
Mark Twain

Cor

Thanks Keta, I never heard of a winch reel before, but with the help of google know a little bit more.
b]Do you know if this will fit though?[/b]

Built for crankbait fishing and other high resistance baits, the Revo® Winch is designed with a low 5.4:1 gear ratio for added cranking power.
From a local website.

I see on https://www.ereplacementparts.com/abu-garcia-4600-winch-ambassadeur-parts-c-187196_187197_187282.html

Main Gear 5600C4Winch Obsolete - Not Available
Part Number:24973
Cornelis

Cor

I have been told by another source that it would probably not be a good idea to do what I am proposing as it will place too much stress on other parts the reel.   I accept that but it is not that I would be cranking 2 lb constantly.

Never the less, that will leave me with finding a small reel that is strongly geared, or perhaps 2 speed and fairly light and does not cost the earth (this may no longer be possible)
Cornelis

mhc

Hi Cor,
It's all a bit foggy in my memory but I think the C4 6.3:1 gears were/are considered high speed for the round ambassadeur reels, the standard gears for round ambassadeurs were 5.3:1 (called 'high speed' for a while - 4.7:1 was 'standard' but I'm not sure what years). The 5.3:1 and pinion would be an improvement in torque and should be a lot easier to source than the winch gears but you'll need to check the casting brake blocks fit. I think there were early 4.1:1 or something like that 'winch' gears but the C4 winch set were 3.8:1. and hard to find as you have said.
   
Quote from: Cor on June 11, 2022, 07:37:28 AMI have been told by another source that it would probably not be a good idea to do what I am proposing as it will place too much stress on other parts the reel.   
Not sure about that, I've got a C4 4600 winch and I think there's an earlier 4500 winch in one of the boxes but from memory the gears are the only difference with the 'normal' reels - Same frame, spool etc. Having said that, I can't remember seeing a 6500 sized winch- not sure if that's because the narrower frames/spools are stronger.

Quote from: Cor on June 11, 2022, 07:37:28 AMNever the less, that will leave me with finding a small reel that is strongly geared, or perhaps 2 speed and fairly light and does not cost the earth (this may no longer be possible)

If you want to stay with ABU there is the two speed 6500C3 or 5500C3, they are 6.1:1 and 3.8:1 automatic shift at a pre-set load. Nice reels, old but still relatively expensive from what I've seen on ebay. I used a 5500 2 speed estuary fishing for a while and the only complaint is the knots failed a couple of times :)

Mike 

It can't be too difficult - a lot of people do it.

Keta

Hi, my name is Lee and I have a fishing gear problem.
A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way.
Mark Twain

Cor

#6
Thanks for the replies.

I bought this reel 27-Aug-09 from somewhere in the US because it had nearly a high enough retrieve rate for my purpose and I wanted to go very light, so mhc you are probably correct.   Down here these reels are not popular, but I must say this one is very nicely made but perhaps also appears delicate.   The reputation of these reels here has always been that they work well, but are temperamental and not very suitable for our harsh fishing conditions.  I have also been advised against doing this by someone who is much more familiar with Abu's then me.

I have no affiliation with ABU, in fact I have my reservations about it's durability.   As I would also like to fit a power handle and perhaps strengthen the drag,  I also tend to think that these reels may not survive that kind of treatment.

I had just started to give serious consideration to search for a more robust framed, small & light weight reel, probably with a level wind system, fairly low gear ratio or maybe two speed and not too expensive.   May be anything conventional,  between a bait caster or an aluminium frame, that fits the bill and needs to hold around 150 Y of 0.3 mm line.
The reel will be used on a small boat, that implies it will get drenched in sea water, fall around, get sat on, covered in blood and black squid ink, but lovingly cleaned and serviced regularly!

OK, so now I also know that I can fit a lower ratio gear to my existing reel.      This may also require a replacement drag system.     I would guess this will cost me at least $100 for the parts whereas a new reel would probably go for more then double that.
If I break the Abu, then too bad as I have no alternative use for a reel of that class, though it is still in very good condition.   

So the plan A) is to try to obtain the parts to modify the Abu first, if that is too expensive or not obtainable, then plan B) buy a new reel as described above.

Some assistance in finding the right reel to fit my needs will be appreciated, there is an unbelievable choice of reels around these days, only the Penn site already list a number of suitable candidates.
Cornelis

mhc

I had a quick look online for a winch set without luck - JDL Treasures (US ebay and a member here) have a 5000 winch main but no pinion listed. I thought I had a set I picked up way back when, but can't find them now. See how you go with your search for a winch set - I can send a set of 5.3:1 over if you don't have any luck. 

Mike
It can't be too difficult - a lot of people do it.

Cor

Quote from: mhc on June 12, 2022, 11:09:38 AMI had a quick look online for a winch set without luck - JDL Treasures (US ebay and a member here) have a 5000 winch main but no pinion listed. I thought I had a set I picked up way back when, but can't find them now. See how you go with your search for a winch set - I can send a set of 5.3:1 over if you don't have any luck. 

Mike
Thanks Mike.

I have spent about 4 hours searching for suitable small reels this morning and very little is in stock and its a frustrating exercise.   Of course here it is difficult to source most things other then the "high sales" items.   On Ebay are a few reels but at high prices.   Luckily I don't have a great urgency so will look around.   I do appreciate the help!
Cornelis

thorhammer

My 0.02- keep Abu stock and find a Penn Mag 10. Not much bigger but a lot stronger and you can put a power handle on it like a 24-56.

Cor

#10
Quote from: thorhammer on June 14, 2022, 01:26:19 PMMy 0.02- keep Abu stock and find a Penn Mag 10. Not much bigger but a lot stronger and you can put a power handle on it like a 24-56.
Thanks for the suggestion.

Here is the conclusion after quite some to-ing and fro-ing.

The Abu brand was in the Purefishing stable, but it is now in a business called Iron river http://ironriver.co.za/ perhaps its only a situation in South Africa I don't know.

I enquired with them about the parts I needed to do the upgrade /modification I wanted, they were helpful but not very knowledgeable.  The 3 parts I needed would cost me $45-00 but what I still don't know is if I would need to buy a new set of drag washers.  I felt I could well end up spending anything over $75 to modify a reel which in reality I had little faith in.

I then looked for a cheap small reel that would do the job.  I actually looked at Fathom 8XN
Squall 15 Warfare 15 but then decided there are so many reels on the market now that it is an impossibility to find the right one for the job overnight.  Then also bear in mind a lot of the reels are just not available as well.  I became a bit irritated with the project and decided to buy a cheap copy reel with a very good reputation and just ordered it, see photo!   This is an Omoto reel, branded in name of an S.A. tackle distributor.

I received the reel this afternoon, spooled it and tried cranking up a 2 & ½ lb weight without serious difficulty.  I did put the handle in the long position.    The Abu could not crank up half that weight.

This new reel is slightly bigger and heavier then I wanted, but it seems to do what I want it for with ease and only cost me $65-00.  I know that it was made for local conditions, is a bit course but very rugged and durable and that you get what you pay for usually. :-X

Tomorrow I'll give the reel a once over some grease and oil and should be ready to go.

I even considered buying a smaller Tranx which I think would have worked in the low gear model but that would have been a serious over investment, more what I liked then what I needed.


PS I am a guy who has been heard to say I need to get rid of tackle, not buy more.    I told the wife, she was very understanding, seriously!
Cornelis

thorhammer

that looks like a good call. fyi I have Squall 15DCS which I really like, 30 LD yet to use, and a 30LW which I think would be great in your application if you went that way later...

boon

What's it a clone of? Looks a bit like a Daiwa SL20SH?

Cor

I wish it was, I liked those reels but they are nearly double the price of this one.   In this case the reel will just get abused so I decided to buy a cheapy.  It's a copy of a Shimano 20/40 but smaller and the insides don't resemble it.

I caught a lot of Squid with it last week, so it does what I wanted it for and does it well enough, but...... it's heavy, the build is course with a fair bit of slop, a level winder would have been better and so on.

My heart does not like buying "good enough" but sometimes my brain rules ::)  ;D

This reel is made for a local tackle brand, by a well-known maker of copy reels whose name now eludes me.

Cornelis