Penn 113h Gear, Drag, Bridge Upgrade and issues

Started by Dawsonh, July 19, 2022, 04:25:32 AM

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Dawsonh

I have a 113h 4/0 with the all posts frame and a clicker.

I have installed the ss double dog bridge, ss gear sleave, high speed ss gear set, ss yoke. My problem is after putting all this back together when I tighten the drag it gets nearly impossible to reel and it also wont to all the way into freespool. I have not made any modifications to the side plates.

I also have a newel spool, spacer bars, and stand I am putting on this one. I have tried both spools, same issues.

I like tinkering with stuff, this one has me stumped.

oldmanjoe

  How did you put the double dog bridge in with out cutting the side plate ?
  Can you add pictures ?
   Have you read this post , this will give you the information needed .
  https://alantani.com/index.php?topic=3083.0
Grandpa`s words of wisdom......Joey that thing between your shoulders is not a hat rack.....    use it.....
A mind is like a parachute, it only work`s  when it is open.......
Forget about all the reasons why something may not work. You only need to find one good reason why it will.   Alto Mare

Dawsonh

It is a double dog bridge made by pro challenger i got from mystic reel parts. I  looked over that post it isnt that type of dog set up.

Brewcrafter

Dawsonh - You're at the right place.  I am pretty familiar with the quality parts you have listed above, and here are some thoughts:
  • You did not mention your drag kit.  Stock?  One of Brian's killer "7+1" aftermarket stacks?  Home made combination of stock and aftermarket?  Drag stack height (and pretty much any measurements) can be critical.  Also while those aftermarket gear sets are pretty much a drop in, they are slightly larger.
  • As great as all of these parts are, from great folks, it is important to keep in mind both the long run of the 113H and the fact that multiple "non-stock" parts are coming from multiple manufacturers.  As good as they are, some massaging may be required.  With tolerance stackup, it is not unusual that even something as simple as loosening the bridge screws and retightening them can correct the problem.  That few thousands of play can make a difference.
  • This may prove helpful: https://alantani.com/index.php?topic=31860.msg372294#msg372294
There are many folks on this site that are way sharper than I am, many of whom actually developed the parts you are using.  But I am fond of the 113H and have done a few of these conversions with the parts mentioned.  I am confident we can work through this together, you have an awesome reel in the making! - john

Swami805

I've had similar issues with fitment at times, something is off just a little bit. To figure out what try using stock parts to isolate what it might be. Start by putting it back together with the stock yoke and jack and use the rest of the after market parts.  For me anyway those have been the culprit and needed tweaking. It's a process of elimination.  You'll get there, be patient
Do what you can with that you have where you are

Wompus Cat

Make sure
1. The  Free Spool lever works freely before you put the sideplate on .
2. Make sure the pinion moves freely in  both free spool and lock down  before you put the side plate on by inserting the spool in the assembly. If it doesn't then your problem is in the drag stack or the way you have the assembly together .
If all this is Gute then
 Obvious but often overlooked make sure you have side play in the spool when assembled .
 
If a Grass Hopper Carried a Shotgun then the Birds wouldn't MESS with Him

Dawsonh

Quote from: Brewcrafter on July 19, 2022, 06:49:30 AMDawsonh - You're at the right place.  I am pretty familiar with the quality parts you have listed above, and here are some thoughts:
  • You did not mention your drag kit.  Stock?  One of Brian's killer "7+1" aftermarket stacks?  Home made combination of stock and aftermarket?  Drag stack height (and pretty much any measurements) can be critical.  Also while those aftermarket gear sets are pretty much a drop in, they are slightly larger.
  • As great as all of these parts are, from great folks, it is important to keep in mind both the long run of the 113H and the fact that multiple "non-stock" parts are coming from multiple manufacturers.  As good as they are, some massaging may be required.  With tolerance stackup, it is not unusual that even something as simple as loosening the bridge screws and retightening them can correct the problem.  That few thousands of play can make a difference.
  • This may prove helpful: https://alantani.com/index.php?topic=31860.msg372294#msg372294
There are many folks on this site that are way sharper than I am, many of whom actually developed the parts you are using.  But I am fond of the 113H and have done a few of these conversions with the parts mentioned.  I am confident we can work through this together, you have an awesome reel in the making! - john

It is a 7+1 stack forgot to add that. Ive beat my head on this for hours. Ill tear back into it later today when its hot outside.

I can try what another suggested about subbing oem back in and seeing if process of elemination can get it.

Thanks for everyone's willingness to help.

Dawsonh

I forgot to add, in the tutorial short version on the 4/0, there is a shot where it looks like some dremel work has been done to the side plate on the handle side. Anyone know what thats about?

Gfish

#8
Welcome to the Forum, Dawsonh!
Yeah, I think. Sal came up with that mod before The double-Dog bridge was a thing that the Mod guy's like Pro Challenger came up with. A craftsman's way to have either alternating(reduce back play) or synchronized(strength) Dogs. The plate, in it's original factory form, didn't have a place for the other dog to fit.
I like Wompus Cat's # 2 for your issue. Not to insult your knowledge, but also make sure the pinion is facing the right way; notched end towards the spool. And oh yeah, the question Joe had? ...
Fishing tackle is an art form and all fish caught on the right tackle are"Gfish"!

Dawsonh

I got it.

The upgraded 7+1 stack and the high speed gears nested nearly perfectly. The old gears and drag stack were taller, one carbon fiber washer and one keyed washer sat above the gear. When I put it back together the first time the drag star was contacting the frame when tightened. I moved one of the fiber washers and one keyed washer to the top of the new gears and stack making it 8+1. It fit this time and works ok now. The spool shaft is still pretty tight to the pinion but it does freel spool now and cranck as it should. I may polish the spool shaft and inside of the pinion to see if that helps.

RowdyW

What fiber washer did you put on top? Take out that fiber washer and only use the metal keyed washers for spacers on top. Adding another fiber washer that is outside the main gear does not increase the drag in any way. It is still a 7+1 drag system.

Dawsonh

An ht 100 with a keyed washer on top of it. They were on top of the old gear so i put them in top of the new one since i found them that way.

RowdyW

That's because the 5th CF washer is engaged by the eared washer under it at the top of the main gear. Any washers above that last keyed washer are just spacers because they do not connect to the main gear. Do you have the #18 coned washer on the top of the stack?

Wompus Cat

#13
QuoteThe old gears and drag stack were taller, one carbon fiber washer and one keyed washer sat above the gear. When I put it back together the first time the drag star was contacting the frame when tightened. I moved one of the fiber washers and one keyed washer to the top of the new gears and stack making it 8+1. It fit this time and works ok now. The spool shaft is still pretty tight to the pinion but it

You need the proper size Spacer .You put can fifty different sizes of shims and drags inside the housing but if the SPACER is not protruding through the star won't engage it .
Also as I mentioned in earlier  post when assembling the  gear,stack and Bridge  before you put it all together make sure the assembly turns freely as in put the handle on it and see .Then if all is right put the spool in sideplates rings,foot etc. and put the proper length spacer on where the Star will engage it properly .

It ain't Rocket Surgery ....lol you are just missing a key assembly phase .If you don't get it  post some pics of your assembly and we will get you squared away .
If a Grass Hopper Carried a Shotgun then the Birds wouldn't MESS with Him

RowdyW

For a drag stack to work completely it has to be built in an odd number. 3, 5, 7, 9 etc. Even numbers don't work.