First guide on a surf conventional

[JasonGotaProblem]

I know there's a million variables, action of the blank, etc. I'm just looking for a starting point, and I'll refine from there.

What size guide do you tend to use as a stripper on a surf casting conventional built for long distance casts, and about how far from the reel seat are you putting it? And what size runners do you prefer? Assume a nice fast taper rod,and braided line.

Does it change much if it's just a really fast taper 7' rod for conventional casting, as compared to say a 10 footer?

[Swami805]

The height of the guide frame is important too, goes a long way in determining ring size and spacing

[Cuttyhunker]

You may find some help in here from this FUJI publication, I have no idea

[Breadfan]

If you want the most distance, mount your reel and start with a 25-30 size guide at the desired point on your rod, for whatever the specs call for. Tape a few runners on. Put a tip top on. Run the line through with a weight on the end. On the retrieve, the line should not hit the stripper guide on the left side or the right side, or it should be really close. Because of the wider spool, the 6000 size reel will require a bigger guide than say, a 5000 size reel, on so on. That gets you the most distance. However, I have a size 20 on one of my rods and it does hit the side, but I still throw it a mile. But if you want the most distance, the method I described is a good way. I just finished a 13' Cast Pro, and I set it up just like that with a 30 size as the stripper.

[JasonGotaProblem]

I guess what I'm confused by is what is the functional difference between a conventional casting rod and a baitcast rod? It seems many baitcast rods have a first guide that's either a size 12 or 16 ring, usually about 18-24" away from reel seat. But, like above, some seem to call for much larger stripper guides, seemingly also much further up the blank, and I'm trying to understand the difference.

And a size 30 guide is about the largest I'd consider for a first reducer on a surf spinning rod. That doesn't mean it's wrong. But it's what made me start second guessing my understanding. So I guess follow up question what's the difference between a surf conventional and a surf spinning rod?

[steelfish]

I guess what I'm confused by is what is the functional difference between a conventional casting rod and a baitcast rod? It seems many baitcast rods have a first guide that's either a size 12 or 16 ring, usually about 18-24" away from reel seat. But, like above, some seem to call for much larger stripper guides, seemingly also much further up the blank, and I'm trying to understand the difference.

And a size 30 guide is about the largest I'd consider for a first reducer on a surf spinning rod. That doesn't mean it's wrong. But it's what made me start second guessing my understanding. So I guess follow up question what's the difference between a surf conventional and a surf spinning rod?

Jason you're getting too technical on the "reasons" and "why's" of the fishing rods, nothing wrong with that but on my way to see it only worth if you are doing some R&D blanks, rods, etc like our friend Jeri in Africa.

There are tons of different rods that people call it "conventional casting rods" from 6ft to 10ft to cast irons from a boat and from shore those can be up to 15ft a baitcasting rod normally is related to a rod that will be used with a baitcasting reel aka casting reel with levelwind, also this reel can be lowprofile reel or a round reel, now, depending on the height of the reel is the height of the 1st guide aka striper guide, that why you see baitcaster rods with 12 and 16 size guides.
if you're building a 8ft conventional Casting rod for a shimano trinidad 16a which sits pretty high on the rod compared to a shimano tranx 400 the rod will cast better if you put a 20 size guide compared to a 16 or even 12 size guide, now as our friend "BReadfan" just said, on a 13ft beach power caster conventional rod a 30 size wont look bad because of the diameter of the blank and the size of reels you normally use on those long 12-15ft rods.
with that said, I have a rainshadow 12ft surf conventional rod with ALPS MXN guides and the striper guide is 25 size, the reels I used with that rod was a Saltist 20h and Abu 6500c3

so, in short, the size and distance of a striper guide depends on the reel you are going to be using and the type of blank.

[Breadfan]

Baitcast and conventional are the same, pretty much.  I do understand what you are saying. I was giving you the way I lay out a long distance rod. It makes sense that if the the line is barely touching the first stripper, you'd get more distance. But, I would not worry about it. The good thing about conventional set ups is they are NOT nearly as finicky as spinning setups. The best thing to do is get some of that 1/4 inch "produce" tape and tape your guides on and go test cast. That will tell you a lot. Or don't worry about it and use size 20 or 25 to start and let it fly. I get great distance with my rods that have a size 20 stripper, but I get more with a little bit bigger stripper. My main concern with a convention setup is that the line does not touch the blank under load. All rods are different and all should be tested (under load) before you go wrapping those guides. Here is a link explaining "Static Guide Placement"

https://www.rodbuilding.org/library/staticguide.html

[Breadfan]

Well said, Steelfish.

[Breadfan]

I didn't read that last line correctly about the differences between the surf spinning rod and conventional spinning rod set up. A spinning rod set up is different to whereas the line comes off in coils and it must be tamed to go through the guides in a more efficient way. We call it "the cone of flight". Using braid or mono will require different layouts, if one want the best from his/her rod. Mono likes to be "choked" down slowly and Braid likes to be "choked" down more quickly. Using a conventional is not nearly as critical ad there are no "coils" of line, it's just coming off in a straight manner. Here is a link about laying out for the New Fuji Guide Concept. Much more involved to get good results.

https://www.rodbuilding.org/library/spinningNGC.pdf