alan tani @ alantani.com fishing reel repair rebuild tutorial tld 20/25
Reel Repair by Alan Tani
October 22, 2019, 01:29:44 AM *
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Author Topic: tld 20/25  (Read 196171 times)
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luckybass
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« Reply #180 on: August 29, 2016, 06:09:47 PM »

check the brass cam under the preset knob.  i found one yesterday that was cracked. 

looks to be in good shape. Frustration is starting to settle in.....
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luckybass
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« Reply #181 on: August 29, 2016, 07:54:48 PM »

check the brass cam under the preset knob.  i found one yesterday that was cracked.  

looks to be in good shape. Frustration is starting to settle in.....

Found the issue, yes it is the brass cam, cam should be a square shape but it is a circle. Brass cam is stripped and the new one has been ordered. This is the second time this happen to a TLD, last time was a TLD20. I guess this could be a common issue? BTW the reel i am working on is the TLD25
« Last Edit: August 29, 2016, 07:55:42 PM by luckybass » Logged

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alantani
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« Reply #182 on: August 30, 2016, 08:40:19 AM »

found this to be the culprit several times.  Undecided
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erikpowell
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« Reply #183 on: August 30, 2016, 03:43:14 PM »

It's a very common disease with the TLD's.
But easily fixed!
While you're at it, I'd suggest you order a spare Pre-program dial as well, those are usually the first thing to go on a TLD.
These are cheap parts.
Get a nice layer of grease on it, but don't glob it in there too heavy.

I'll usually end up replacing about 3-4 cams for every 10 pre-program dials.
I probably burn through about 2 dozen pre-program dials a year here Roll Eyes



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juicebruiser
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« Reply #184 on: February 25, 2017, 02:18:27 PM »

I'm going to upgrade this reel I'm told there is a kit available ... how can I get one? If there is no kit, What are the dimensions of the Stainless steel washer used to replace the 4 layers of masking tape. THanks




here is a link to the schematics for the single speed tld 20 and 25 reels.....

http://fish.shimano.com/media/fishing/SAC/techdocs/en/Conventional/TLD_20_ARB_v1_m56577569830570244.pdf

http://fish.shimano.com/media/fishing/SAC/techdocs/en/Conventional/TLD_25_ARB_v1_m56577569830570245.pdf

and here are the reels.  except for the width of the spool, frame and spool shaft, the reels are identical.  these reels were shipped in from hawaii.  the freespool was very poor, but these reels were still in good enough shape to kill fish. 



by now, you all know the drill.  pull the preprogram dial (key #9), the dial spring (key #82), the lever shaft body and "O" seal (key# 10 and 11), and the drag control lever (key #83).



remove the lever quadrant (key #192) and screws (key #19, 21 and 86).



remove the seven side plate bolts (key #24).



separate out the frame, spool and right side plate assemblies.



let's start with the frame first.  grease up the click spring (key #101) and click pawl (key #231).



these old wing nut clamps are great for gouging up the gelcoat of a boat.  let's get rid of them.



the graphite clamps are much better.  ok, that's it for the frame. 



now for the spool.  once again, the cooling shield (key #89) was loose.  note the rubber gasket that seals up the drag chamber when the reel is in gear.  remember to keep this and all of the shimano graphite lever drag reels in gear when they will be exposed to water. 



remove the drag plate assembly (key #196, 60, 91 and 31) and set it aside with the cooling shield. 



now for the left side of the spool.  remove cross pin B (key #50).



remove the click gear (key #98) and screws (key #99).



pull the main shaft (key #173), keeping the bellevilles, thrust washers and bearings in order.





these bearing are gummed up, but not rusted.  with a small pen knife, pry out the shields and let's clean them out with carb cleaner and compressed air, then lube them with corrosion x.  by cleaning the bearings rather than replacing them, we'll save someone $40-50!







now we're going to change the configuration of the bellevilles (pre-load springs).  the original orientation of the pre-load washer A (key #72) and the pre-load spring B's (key #96) is "|()()" and the thickness is 4.61 mm.



we're going to toss the flat washer and add a fifth pre-load spring B.  the new configuration will be "(()))" and the thickness is 4.52 mm.



back into the spool it goes.



grease the screw holes.



install the click gear (key #98), screws (key #99) and cross pin B (key #50).



now for the right side of the spool.  the replacement drag washer is the drag washer used in the two speed shimano tld 20/30 II, part #TT-0246.  the tabs were cut off with wire cutters.  then i found an impact socked that fit the center hole just perfectly.  i carefully held the drag washer against a grinder so that it would spin, and ground the drag washer down to the exact same size as the stock washer. don't worry about not having the same tabs as the stock washer.  the tabs are not needed. 



apply a thin coat of shimano drag grease to the spool.



apply a thin coat of grease to both sides of the drag washer and press it into place.



rub off all the excess grease.



install the bearings (key #216) and pressure release spring (key #202).



you will notice a small amount of play in the drag plate assembly.  that play needs to be eliminated.  pop out the seal lock (key #31).



from left to right, you see the seal lock (key #31), the drag plate (key #91), pre-load spring A (key #60) and the pinion guard (key #196).  what i am holding is a stainless steel washer that my machine shop buddy punched out for me.  this replaces the 4 layers of masking tape that you saw in the tld 20/30 two speed upgrade post. 



it there is ALOT of play in the drag plate assembly, install pre-load spring A in the "down" position to take up more play.  normally you can install pre-load spring "up" position.



install the drag plate assembly and cooling shield (key #89).



use the wrench (key #230) to tighten down the spooling shield. 



install the spool assembly back into the frame.  install the pinion gear (key #168).



ok, we're done with the frame and spool.  now we're on to the right side plate.  first, we need to get to the right main side plate bearing (key #215).  a "coffee grinder" sensation when you turn the handle says this bearing is shot.  it is always the first one to go out.



remove the handle screw (key #75), the handle nut (key #76), the handle (key #208), gear shaft shield (key #78), gear shaft thrust washer (key #79) and the main gear (key #166).  the dog (key #26) will fall out.



the original bearing was totally rusted, so the shields were removed from a new bearing, and the bearing was packed with grease. 



replace dog (key #26) and the main gear (key #166). 



these reels definitely need a handle upgrade.  tiburon makes a nice one.  http://www.tiburonengineering.com/html/t-bar_handles.html  reel colors makes one as well,  http://www.reelcolors.com/reelcolors_004.htm  this is the one that is made for me. 



install the gear shaft thrust washer (key #79), the gear shaft shield (key #78), the new handle, the handle nut (key #76) and the handle nut screw (key #75). 



install the right side plate assembly and screws (key #24).



install the lever quadrant (key #192) and screws (key #21, 19 and 86).



just a side note for a common problem.  one of the screw holes for the lever quadrant was stripped out.  a small copper strip was cut to fit the hole.  after running the screw back in, the copper strip held the screw just fine.






install the drag control lever (key #83) and push it down into the "free" position.



align the lever shaft body (key #11) so that it "nests" with the drag control lever and drop it in.   add a small amount of grease, then the dial spring (key #82) and the pre-program dial (key #9).



check the freespool.



check the maximum drag at strike before losing free spool.  you should be able to get at least 20 pound.  this particular reel was able to get 26 pound of drag at strike before freespool was lost.  when backed off to 12 pound of drag at strike, the freespool time was 60 seconds. 



you can clearly see the difference in size between the stock handle and the larger aftermarket handle. 



just a side note.  the tld 20 has nearly the same line capacity as the penn senator 113HL.  the tld 25 is nearly the same as the penn senator 113HLW.  for the tld 20 and 25, this means lots of line capacity, and now plenty of drag.  the problem is the graphite frame.  i am not aware of a single case of frame failure with these single speed tld's.  i am certain that the tld 20/25 frame can easily handle 15 pounds of drag at strike with no risk of frame failure.  it may be able to handle up to 18 pounds of drag at strike.  please do not exceed 18 pounds. 

so what this boils down to is straight 40-50 pound mono on a tld 20 with a 30% drag setting, and straight 50-60 pound mono on a tld 25 and the same 30% drag setting.  you see that 18 pound of drag at strike is the heaviest setting that i would ever recommend.  i believe the 18 pound strike setting for either reel is safe because i am aware of no cases of frame failure.  if anyone out there knows differently, please let me know.  i have no problem adjusting these numbers down.
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alantani
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« Reply #185 on: July 09, 2018, 04:35:05 PM »

finally got three reels to work on at once, to make it easier to see the "before," "after," and "in between" shots!

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Mjg378
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« Reply #186 on: July 17, 2018, 05:53:07 AM »

Been busy at work and like to come on the website sometimes to ‘decompress’  ( My kids word for relax) maybe learn a thing or two.   WOW. I didn’t think the PowerPoint instruction could be any better till I watched the video.  Seeing it, especially the explanation of the sleeve. Yep, love the video, great explanations. Thanks Alan.

Mike
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steelfish
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« Reply #187 on: May 30, 2019, 11:02:17 AM »

It's a very common disease with the TLD's.
But easily fixed!
While you're at it, I'd suggest you order a spare Pre-program dial as well, those are usually the first thing to go on a TLD.
These are cheap parts.
Get a nice layer of grease on it, but don't glob it in there too heavy.

I'll usually end up replacing about 3-4 cams for every 10 pre-program dials.
I probably burn through about 2 dozen pre-program dials a year here Roll Eyes

how do you know when the pre-program dial is toast?
I mean, lets say everything works on the TLD20, then the drag starts to act weird, so after checking and changing benevilles, bearings, even CAM what phisical change or marks do you search on the program dial to see if its the culprit?
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erikpowell
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« Reply #188 on: June 02, 2019, 06:06:21 PM »

Hi Steelfish,

I've never seen the pre-program dial's threads cause issues. What usually happens is the dial corrodes and doesn't allow the lever shaft body (cam) to move freely inside anymore.
Often times the cam will be stuck inside the dial and when that happens the drag adjustment no longer functions and you can't unscrew the dial from the spool shaft

I've had to hacksaw a few apart to get them off.

If the dial comes off freely and everything separates, and there's no visible bubbling or corrosion, then chances are there's no issue with the dial itself and I'd look towards the cam. Has the square hole been rounded off as described in the previous post?
Can you describe how the drag is acting weird?
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steelfish
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« Reply #189 on: June 03, 2019, 09:04:50 AM »

look towards the cam. Has the square hole been rounded off as described in the previous post?
Can you describe how the drag is acting weird?

actually the cam square hole is been rounded a bit, so pretty sure this should be the culprit of the drag but since I order the parts from USA to Mexico I have to wait some weeks to have them and I wanted to order all the possible problematic parts in one order
weird = it doesnt have any drag even with with the dial all tighten up well maybe 3-4# at the most and of couse no free spool, I will order a new set of 4 benevilles and new cam, I already installed new bearings on the spool and sideplate.
the pre-program dial looks in good shape with no signs of corrosion or anything
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Gumbo
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« Reply #190 on: August 26, 2019, 11:20:25 AM »

I’ve read most of the posts on the TLD 20/25 and wanted to understand what modifications would be useful if all you are looking to do is fish 30lb mono on these reels.  I am trying to replicate the drag specs and freespool characteristics of a Talica 20 BFC or other purpose built sailfish and white marlin reels without spending $700 on a reel.  Around 3-5 lbs of drag at strike and potentially 10-15 lbs at full.  Reels would be used exclusively for light trolling or “dink bait” fishing.  This is trolling chin weighted ballyhoo with light leaders and circle hooks.  Very popular in Florida, the Carolinas and places like Guatemala and Belize for sailfish, white and striped marlin and dolphin.  Goal is to have just enough drag to keep the line from creeping off the reel while trolling so that fish don’t feel it when they strike and a gradual drag curve for setting the circle hook.  Freespool and related ability to “drop-back” or pitch baits to fish is critical as well.

I realize I am sacrificing retrieve speed by going with the old school TLD, but I’m also not spending $275-700 on a reel with a higher gear ratio, depending on which purpose built Shimano, Avet, Alutecnos, Okuma or other reel you go with.  The other issue is that size of some of these reels necessitates the use of braid to have sufficient line capacity, which further adds to cost. 

I am picking up used TLDs in good shape at a reasonable price before making the upgrades. I plan to do this with a set of six reels and perform the upgrades myself.

From the prior posts, I noticed the following upgrades:

1.  Handles (check)
2.  Carbon fiber drag washers (check)
3.  Remove bearing shields, clean and lube as appropriate (check)
4.  Additional washers or bearing sleeve to avoid the loss of freespool when the reel is tilted (check)
5.  Additional washer or shim to secure the pressure plate (not sure on this part)
6.  Additional belville washers to increase drag at strike and full (not needed, buy maybe fewer or different configuration?)

So please let me know your thoughts on whether adding the additional washer on the pressure plate will improve the drags performance enough to warrant doing this as well.  Seems like having less play in this area is of an added benefit.  If the additional belville washers or changing the configuration is helpful, please let me know.  Finally, another other thoughts or advice is appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

Gumbo
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alantani
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« Reply #191 on: August 26, 2019, 01:03:59 PM »

the carbontex drag is really a must have item, as is the handle.  i can provide both of those.  the drag is obviously available directly from smooth drag.  at that point, i would spool up the reel and check the drag curve to see where you are.  to give you such a big range between strike and full, i will likely be necessary to stiffen the belleville stack.  for this specific application, the tld 20/25 might work quite well!!!!!

send me a pm is you decide to go forward with this and need some parts!  and welcome!!!!!!
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« Reply #192 on: August 26, 2019, 02:02:17 PM »

Alan - thanks for the quick reply.  Will follow up for parts once I collect a set of TLDs.
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alantani
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« Reply #193 on: August 26, 2019, 02:12:55 PM »

anytime!
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