Need Advice On Drag Grease

Walleye Guy · January 25, 2023, 04:27:14 PM

I recently rebuilt a 1973 6500C and after reading so many positive comments on this site about Carbontex drag washers I decided to replace the stock washers with Carbontex. So, I ordered them through a favorite vendor. He sent me two washers: Garcia P/N 10271 replaces the original 7079 and Garcia P/N (he didn't give me this number) replaces the original 3902. Just for kicks as a test, I installed them dry and sure enough the drag feels very jerky. So my question to all of you is what is your choice for drag grease? On this forum, Cal's seems like a popular choice. Also, it doesn't make any sense to me that drag grease is required since the purpose of the drag is to produce friction which the grease will help eliminate. Can someone please enlighten me? Also, can someone please confirm that Garcia P/N 10271 is, in fact, Carbontex. Maybe it's Garcia's version of Carbontex? Seems like some guys install them dry but these did not feel smooth when I installed them dry. Thanks in advance!

alantani · January 25, 2023, 04:45:52 PM

cal's. if you have shimano drag grease, go ahead and use it, but go with cal's if you can.

Keta · January 25, 2023, 04:58:34 PM

#1 Cal's, #2 Shamano. CF drag washers and Cal's drag grease can be purchased from Smooth Drag.

JasonGotaProblem · January 25, 2023, 05:08:53 PM

You are correct that the purpose of drag disks is to introduce friction. And grease does in fact reduce the maximum drag your reel can produce. But when youre actually fishing your reel, what's better: being able to reach higher drags in a laboratory setting even if the jerkiness would snap your line, or losing 10% of your theoretical max drag, but it's butter smooth across the whole range?

Grease your drags. Cal's is best, but any grease that's suitable for a reel is suitable for drags.

And while you're in there take some 1000 grit sandpaper to the metal.drag disks and the result will be even silkier. Just make sure to clean off any metal dust before reinstalling.

foakes · January 25, 2023, 05:59:25 PM

I have a few small tubs of Shimano drag grease from Shimano —- but it is messier.

Cal's works so well.

I buy it from Cal's in both the traditional tan color and the thinner purple color.

The tan is used on heavy duty reel work like for salt or HD fresh. The purple is used for freshwater reels, cold conditions like Canadian and Alaskan climates —- and mixes well with my synthetic oil to thin it out a little more.

Plus, oftentimes, I'll use the purple on the gears of spinners.

It is smooth and stays in place until the next service —- then washes off easily with solvents.

I generally go through (3) 1 pound tubs of Cal's a year.

I also use Yamaha Marine & Superlube on gears —- because the Cal's is a little expensive to use on gears all of the time.

The best for drags —- is Cal's.

Best, Fred

Walleye Guy · January 25, 2023, 06:27:04 PM

Quote from: JasonGotaProblem on January 25, 2023, 05:08:53 PMYou are correct that the purpose of drag disks is to introduce friction. And grease does in fact reduce the maximum drag your reel can produce. But when youre actually fishing your reel, what's better: being able to reach higher drags in a laboratory setting even if the jerkiness would snap your line, or losing 10% of your theoretical max drag, but it's butter smooth across the whole range?

Grease your drags. Cal's is best, but any grease that's suitable for a reel is suitable for drags.

And while you're in there take some 1000 grit sandpaper to the metal.drag disks and the result will be even silkier. Just make sure to clean off any metal dust before reinstalling.

Jason, I do the same thing on those surfaces but with a green Scotch pad.

Is the Garcia 10271 washer I purchased the same "Carbontex" material as the washer that I could have purchased from Smooth Drag? I'm trying to figure out if there are different variations of that material.

Keta · January 25, 2023, 06:35:34 PM

Fred, I tested purple by greasing identical reelsvwith regular Cal's and purple Cal's then putting the reels in my freezer. I did not notice a difference in the pounds it to break. I still use both, purple on mine and others steelhead reels and any reel that could be used in sub freezing conditions.

JasonGotaProblem · January 25, 2023, 06:36:38 PM

They are both carbon fiber textiles but they are not to the best of my understanding the same in all regards. At the minimum the weave is different. Not sure if it helps or hurts but to visual inspection they are different.

Walleye Guy · January 25, 2023, 06:49:24 PM

For this application the reel could see some colder weather duty like early spring up in Canada or late November pike/muskie fishing in Michigan. Should I get the purple grease?

It's interesting to me that the drag washers in my early 5000's (P/N 3902 and 3903 are very smooth when installed dry and when it comes time for a rebuild all I do is clean with acetone, scuff them with a green Scotch pad and reuse them. They don't seem to ever go bad. It's for this reason that I have yet to try the Carbontex. However, the 7079 drag washer in later reels seems to be made of a different material (leather?) and in my experience is often deteriorated when I disassemble the reel.

jurelometer · January 25, 2023, 07:04:33 PM

Sliding friction is a function of how slippery the surface pair is (coefficient of friction) and how hard the surfaces are pressed together. Greasing the drag surfaces decreases the coefficient of friction, so you have to tighten the star more to achieve the same drag setting, as you noted. But you get something useful in return:

There are two flavors of friction that you are dealing with - static and kinetic. The coefficient of friction for a pair of sliding surfaces will be greater from a dead stop (static) than when in motion (kinetic). If you want the smoothest drag, you need the least difference between static and kinetic friction. Greasing the drag washers gives you both lower static and kinetic, but there is also less difference between the two.

As to which grease to use:

1. Has to be the right thickness when cold (NLGI 2, maybe 1 for very cold environments UDATE - maybe not, looking at Lee's testing)
2. Has to have a high dropping point (doens't get runny below about 350F or so)
3. Has a PTFE (trade name Teflon) additive to decrease the difference in COF (not sure if this is really necessary- but the popular drag greases have it).

For just about any use, a grease with the above properties will work fine.

Cal's is the long time favorite, but it is an older technology mineral oil based grease. It got sticky on my cork drag saltwater fly reels, so I switched to Super Lube, which I now use on all types of reels. Other members here use it as well. It is more readily available, economically priced, and has a synthetic lubricant.

I think that most of the high volume reel repair guys (and especially the big game guys) are wary of moving away from something that works just fine, and most started out with Cal's.

BTW, dry carbon weave should be reasonably smooth if the metal washers are clean and smooth, but might be a bit more sticky than a smooth drag washer if the metal washers are a bit dirty or scuffed.

-J

Walleye Guy · January 25, 2023, 08:33:34 PM

Currently I use Amsoil red #2 multi-purpose synthetic grease in my reels. It's a great grease if you look at the properties and it also doesn't separate. Maybe I should get Super Lube rather than Cal's since it is also synthetic? I was hoping to use grease I already have in the garage (I do a fair amount of automotive side work) but have no issue with buying something if that's what it takes to do it right.

handi2 · January 25, 2023, 09:19:34 PM

Quote from: Walleye Guy on January 25, 2023, 08:33:34 PMCurrently I use Amsoil red #2 multi-purpose synthetic grease in my reels. It's a great grease if you look at the properties and it also doesn't separate. Maybe I should get Super Lube rather than Cal's since it is also synthetic? I was hoping to use grease I already have in the garage (I do a fair amount of automotive side work) but have no issue with buying something if that's what it takes to do it right.

The Superlube grease will be fine. Just wipe it all off on a towel without damaging the carbon washer. Those small ones are easy to break

We Cals in our saltwater reels. I've seen so many reels with multiple drag washers completely stuck in the main gear by saltwater and corrosion. They have to be soaked in oil or similar for hours.

You then have to beat the main gear off of the gear sleeve and dig the old washer's out

Keith

nelz · January 26, 2023, 04:18:48 PM

Are you guys saying Super Lube works well as a drag grease?

nelz · January 26, 2023, 04:22:03 PM

Quote from: Walleye Guy on January 25, 2023, 04:27:14 PMI installed them dry and sure enough the drag feels very jerky.

FYI, they shouldn't be jerky dry, probably some oil or grease got on them during installation.

Lunker Larry · January 26, 2023, 04:33:03 PM

Quote from: nelz on January 26, 2023, 04:18:48 PMAre you guys saying Super Lube works well as a drag grease?

It works great on drags and everything else. Been using it for a few years now. Have not come across any issues regarding drag or anything. Love it.
I'm speaking from fresh water reel servicing only.
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