Are lever drag reels not as smooth as star drag reels?

[Jenx]

So I recently bought a new Fathom 10xnld. This is my first time owning a lever drag reel. I own a few other Fathom SD reels and I have been happy with them all. I have yet to fish with this reel, but I've noticed it's nowhere near as smooth as my other Fathoms. It definitely feels "geary".

Are lever drag reels just not as smooth as star drags, or is there possibly something wrong with my reel? If this where a used reel I would just service it myself to see if that helped, but right out of the box you would think it would already be working as intended.

[alantani]

the drag washers on the lever drag fathoms might not be evenly greased.  i've seen that several times. 

[steelfish]

... but I've noticed it's nowhere near as smooth as my other Fathoms. It definitely feels "geary".

Are lever drag reels just not as smooth as star drags, ...

I asked the same question few years ago when I bought my 1st 2-speed leverdrag reel, a fathom 40LD2, I can hear the gears and even a 5# drag there was a minimal resistance on the handle almost nothing but not as free or smooth as on the star drag reels I had used many years, I got the answer here that its just the nature of the beast.
both reels LD and SD have different mechanism and feels different, its something you just have to get used with time.

that or indeed you reel has something wrong 

[Jenx]

Thanks for the responses. It sounds like everything is normal with the reel.

Maybe it will smooth out some when I get the chance to open it up for maintenance.

[day0ne]

Even new reels need to be serviced. They are not always done properly at the factory.  Just insurance.

[jurelometer]

Assuming we are talking about relative roughness when winding:

I think that most lever drags use spur gears, and star drags use helical gears exclusively.  There are advantages and disadvantages for both gear types. One advantage of helical gears is that they tend to be  smoother because  multiple teeth will always be engaged at any given point in the rotation, while spur gears "hand off" from one tooth to the next.

-J

[boon]

Fathom LDs are just geary reels. It will get marginally better as the gears lap themselves in with use, and a slightly thicker grease may provide some cushioning effect.

[Jenx]

So I have an update in case anyone cares.

Shortly after starting this thread I sold the Fathom 10xn, as I just didn't like the feel of it, plus I got a good deal on a Accurate 300, which was night and day smoother.

Fast forward five months, and I have since bought three more Fathom two speeds. All three are Gen 1's. I bought a used 40n, and a new 25n and 15xn. Both the 40n and 25n are nice and smooth, but I recently acquired the 15xn, and it's a lot rougher, especially in low gear. It reminded me of the 10xn.

I guess it could just be a coincidence, but now I'm wondering if the XN Fathom's just aren't as smooth. Not sure how or why that would be a thing, but that's 2for2 for me with XN's being rougher than their wider counterparts.

[johndtuttle]

Just give it time. The combination of the SS gear train and the heavy (relatively) spool assembly with all of its drag parts can explain it.

I've had Accurates that nearly sounded like the clicker was engaged. They lap in, in time.


ps. and Jurelometer is right as usual. The spur type gears of the LD reels all have a grindy hand off from one tooth the other but are far better suited to LD shifting mechanisms (hence their use). Star drags with their helical cuts (and usually brass main gears) are going to mesh far more smoothly.

[kevin cozens]

i got a fathom 15ld 2 speed and its fantastic and cast like a dream.
You might be thinking you cant cast with a lever drag. you can when it has a chris macey mag brake conversion.
the reel is capable of casting well over 200 yards in the right hands. as yet they aint my hands ;

[johndtuttle]

i got a fathom 15ld 2 speed and its fantastic and cast like a dream.
You might be thinking you cant cast with a lever drag. you can when it has a chris macey mag brake conversion.
the reel is capable of casting well over 200 yards in the right hands. as yet they aint my hands ;

Weighted spools are a big part of distance casting....just hard to control. But they will spin forever.

[jurelometer]

i got a fathom 15ld 2 speed and its fantastic and cast like a dream.
You might be thinking you cant cast with a lever drag. you can when it has a chris macey mag brake conversion.
the reel is capable of casting well over 200 yards in the right hands. as yet they aint my hands ;

Weighted spools are a big part of distance casting....just hard to control. But they will spin forever.

I don't think that extra mass is a real world benefit.  The inertia would have to be synchronized with the payload for there to be a benefit.  I would put it this way:

The larger the payload that you are intending to cast, and the more extra effort that you are willing to apply, the smaller the distance penalty from the extra rotational inertia in a heavier weight spool (not to mention the extra resistance from the spool bouncing around axially and from having to spin more mass in the balls from the larger ball bearings).

An it works in reverse: If you need to cast a lighter weight with less effort, the extra inertia is a burden that you can't muscle your way out of.  An extreme example of this is tossing a small live bait.

 The full explanation gets a bit long and  sciencey, which means that probably only John will bother to read it    But in a nutshell, you don't want the spool to restrain the payload launch with rotational inertia, and once up to speed, you don't want the inertia to cause the line to unwind faster than the constantly slowing payload is pulling it. 

Some lever drags are kinda bad for inertia, and some are terrible.  The greater the mass in the spool and the farther the mass is from the axis, the greater the rotational inertia. A higher cast control setting to compensate for the inertia means greater resistance which means that you are casting less efficiently.

Or something like that.

-J

[jurelometer]

i got a fathom 15ld 2 speed and its fantastic and cast like a dream.
You might be thinking you cant cast with a lever drag. you can when it has a chris macey mag brake conversion.
the reel is capable of casting well over 200 yards in the right hands. as yet they aint my hands ;

Weighted spools are a big part of distance casting....just hard to control. But they will spin forever.

I don't think that extra mass is a real world benefit.  The spool  velocity would somehow have to be synchronized with the payload velocity  throughout the cast for there to be a benefit.  I would put it this way:

The larger the payload that you are intending to cast, and the more extra effort that you are willing to apply, the smaller the distance penalty from the extra rotational inertia in a heavier weight spool (not to mention the extra resistance from the spool bouncing around axially and from having to spin more mass in the balls from the larger ball bearings).

An it works in reverse: If you need to cast a lighter weight with less effort, the extra inertia is a burden that you can't muscle your way out of.  An extreme example of this is tossing a small live bait.

 The full explanation gets a bit long and  sciencey, which means that probably only John will bother to read it    But in a nutshell, you don't want the spool to restrain the payload launch with rotational inertia, and once up to speed, you don't want the inertia to cause the line to unwind faster than the constantly slowing payload is pulling it. 

Some lever drags are kinda bad for inertia, and some are terrible.  The greater the mass in the spool and the farther the mass is from the axis, the greater the rotational inertia. A higher cast control setting to compensate for the inertia means greater resistance which means that you are casting less efficiently.

Or something like that.

-J