Abu Garica 6500 c3 2 speed

Started by KemaZhu, March 29, 2012, 02:51:31 AM

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Bryan Young

To add, the drive shaft is telescoping. The inner drive shaft often gets bent a little if your drags are too high.  Which means that you may need to file down the flaired edges to make it smooth again to allowed the outer drives shaft to slide on the inner drive shaft.
:D I talk with every part I send out and each reel I repair so that they perform at the top of their game. :D

Buddyboy

Thanks Bryan and Ken,

Nice to talk with people who know the reel.  First of all, the reel does not switch gears as far as I can tell. When I took the shafts apart, they were stuck together.  I had to knock the pin out to separate them.  The shafts would not slide over each other. I took some emery cloth and took off any edges and applied some reel lube.  They seemed to slide fine after that. I figured that they had to slide to shift gears.  Now it seems like it slides too far and the upper gear doesn't engage any more (new problem).  I've put everything together according to the schematic with all new drag washers and shims. Still can't get it to tighten down.

This was a new (never used) older reel. I figured that replacing all the old drag washers with new ones would fix it. I'm at the point now where I've got so many replacement parts that I'm thinking of buying another one so I have 1 good one.

Thanks

Bryan Young

If you want me to look at it, PM me for my address.
:D I talk with every part I send out and each reel I repair so that they perform at the top of their game. :D

Ken_D

Check for missing shims and o-rings and that wispy spring from the top of the side gear stack, that gets grease-glued to inside the sideplate.

That wispy spring is the bane of many DIY folks....it sticks to the side plate, and gets lost in the cleaning process, or as the plate is moved about on the bench.  Pn's 13101, 20184, 20188.  Also:

Ensure that the brass bearing spacers are oriented correctly, the bigger one on the bottom closest to the driveshaft, with the shoulder up, to catch the inner race of the bb. Then the smaller one with the shoulder down, to catch the top of the inner race of the bb. 20716, 20721, 20717.

Bryan Young

I've studied the 5500 C3 2 speed for hours and I cannot figure out how it really works.  I understand conceptually, but how everything really works.  I wish I had clear sideplates.
:D I talk with every part I send out and each reel I repair so that they perform at the top of their game. :D

Buddyboy

I've done everything you suggested, Ken.  Even bought more springs because I thought I lost the original but it was stuck to the side plate.  I don't understand how the gear shift works.  I've got the two shafts sliding freely now but it seems like if it slides the length of the slot in the lower shaft that the upper gear no longer has another gear to contact. I really like messing with it but I'd like to use it too.
Thanks for the insight guys.

raumati01

I found one of these very cheap  at a garage sale a couple of weekends ago. It was in great condition but after I  had a quick look at this thread and sold it shortly afterwards.

Robert Janssen



Quote from: raumati01 on February 15, 2013, 10:09:57 AM
I found one of these very cheap  at a garage sale a couple of weekends ago. It was in great condition but after I  had a quick look at this thread and sold it shortly afterwards.

That's too bad. I've had mine for fifteen years; it has functioned flawlessly. No problems with it or with servicing it.

Quote from: Bryan Young on February 14, 2013, 02:08:44 AM
  I wish I had clear sideplates.

I've spent an hour looking for a picture of an Ambassadeur with clear sideplates i made a few years ago. Couldn't find it. Too bad. Next time.

Quote from: Bryan Young on February 14, 2013, 02:08:44 AM
I've studied the 5500 C3 2 speed for hours and I cannot figure out how it really works.  I understand conceptually, but how everything really works. 

Mmm, well that isn't entirely easy to explain properly. Or, it is, but not in depth without getting too wordy.

Really, it is fairly simply ingenious... A dual transmission similar to any other two-speed, except instead of a solid dog clutch deciding which gear to use, this one uses a friction clutch, just like a star drag.
Or, see it this way: a star drag reel setup, with two gears and two drags- a weak one and a strong one. When under load, the weak drag with the hi-speed gear will slip first. Which leaves the strong drag with the lo-speed gear to drive.

The tricky part, is exactly how it does this. Obviously, you can't have two transmissions at different ratios at the same time. One of them needs to be able to rotate at a different speed, similar to a differential.

Here, let Abu explain that part This is the latest version of Abu's two-speed automatics. They had a couple of other versions from the late '60s as well.



Similar to this version from the Ambassadeur 10 000, which didn't allow the user to set the shift point individually.



Anyway, to the subject at hand:

Quote from: Buddyboy on February 15, 2013, 01:52:49 AM
... I've got the two shafts sliding freely now but it seems like if it slides the length of the slot in the lower shaft that the upper gear no longer has another gear to contact...

No. The shafts slide very, very little. Like, almost none. Like 0.1 mm. All gears should always be in mesh at all times. If they aren't, something else is wrong.

There is no distinct way to tell when it shifts. Try this: Assemble the reel. Tighten the star drag. Loosen the shift knob. Try the reel, cranking with a little bit of thumb pressure on the spool. What you'll see is low gear.

Now tighten the shift knob a bit, and remove thumb from spool. That is high gear.

...And that can be varied, depending on how tight the shift knob is, and how hard your thumb is.

I gotta go.

.

raumati01

Robert I was at a garage sale and saw this guy there who always seems to be at the best ones before me scoring about 30 vintage Doors, the who Hendrix  albums for $1 each which was gutting to say the least. When I asked him if he had found any reels that morning we went out to his van and he had a load of worn out junk and the almost mint  abu 2 speed which I bought for $25, I didn't even realise it was a two speed until I got it home. I sold it to an enthusiast who will appreciate it more than I ever will.

Buddyboy

Robert,

That was interesting.  I enjoyed reading the Abu section. Here's a question for you - if the shafts are only supposed to slide a couple of millimeters, why is the groove almost an inch long? I understand that the shafts should only move far enough to keep the proper gears in contact. But why would they make that slot so long?

Thanks

Robert Janssen

#40
Quote from: Buddyboy on February 20, 2013, 01:12:54 AM

...if the shafts are only supposed to slide a couple of millimeters...

Again, no- Not a couple of millimeters. More like a couple of tenths of millimeters.

Quote from: Buddyboy on February 20, 2013, 01:12:54 AM
...why is the groove almost an inch long?

Idunno. Really.

Quote from: Buddyboy on February 20, 2013, 01:12:54 AM
...the shafts should only move far enough to keep the proper gears in contact.

Yes, but not just the proper gears. All gears should always be in mesh, all the time.

Really, that sentence should say, "..the shafts should only move far enough to keep the proper drag washers in contact."

Sorry if that doesn't help you much. I don't know what to add, except to repeat what KenD said a while back: keep an eye on those brass spacers 20717 (wide one) and 20716 (thinner one). If those go on in the wrong way or order, things don't work properly.

Just wondering something though... part number 20712, does yours look like thi diagram? All in one piece, flat washer swaged to the brass shaft? And how did you get the pin out?



Bryan Young

Thanks for the explaination Dr.  Maybe that is why I went into electronics and not mechanical engineering.
:D I talk with every part I send out and each reel I repair so that they perform at the top of their game. :D

Ken_D

#42
Thx. Dr. Rob.. That connecting pin can be likened to an eclip mocking the person, if removed incorrectly. I lost a few over time till I figured out the problem. When the pin is in the reel for years, it wants to get friction-stuck into position, and can literally fly away if pry pressure to remove is too much.  

I used to use a bent fishhook to remove, but now I use a little screwdriver from the dollar store set, bent over at the very tip, like a baby pry bar. I can now send it down the inner driveshaft, feel about for the pin and gently bunt it out.

My next project is to determine the differences between the two variances of the main gears, one of the side gears, and the main driveshaft. I have those coming in.

http://tinyurl.com/ack3r8b

http://tinyurl.com/akj8wao

Buddyboy

Dr. Rob,

You asked how I got the pin out.  I tapped on the opposite side with a screw driver handle until it fell out. I've tried the brass spacers on either side of the bearing flipped both ways and it doesn't seem to matter.  I've tried adding a couple more brass shims under the star wheel also. I've cleaned all the metal surfaces and tried new washers. Still can't get the drag to grab.  It seems like something is preventing the outer brass shaft to move enough to compress the drag washers.

Appreciate the advice.




Robert Janssen


Hmm... how peculiar.

Offhand, i really don't know. The gizmo itself is really so simple that i can't imagine what isn't working. Mine have worked so well that i haven't had any reason to wonder about it.

I don't have time for this right now; i'll have to look at it later tonight.

In the meantime, maybe KenD has an idea..? Anybody?

.