Another 1+5 drag solution for smaller black Senators

George4741 · April 29, 2012, 09:56:56 PM

When increasing the drag washers from 1+3 to 1+5 in the smaller black Senators, there may not be enough clearance for everything to fit without dremeling out the sideplate. Alan described how to do this in his excellent 111 Senator tutorial. For various reasons, some of us are reluctant to dremel out a sideplate. I won't do this on my 2/0 Senator because the sideplates are no longer made and I want to keep them as original as possible. I'm sure that some other forum members have come up with their own solutions, and Norcal Pescador (I hope you don't mind me mentioning you, Rob

) used five very thin carbontex washers in place of the 6-60 washers to give him the needed clearance. After playing with several different options on my own, I came up with a solution that I like in my 2/0.

Here is the area of the sideplate I won't dremel out.

The drag washers at the bottom left of the photo are a Penn 6-113 and Smoothdrag's #5 carbontex washer. I used the #5 carbontex instead of a 6-113 under the main gear. It is .015 thinner than the 6-113 and gives me the clearance I need to fit everything together. Also, the carbontex is a tighter weave and should be as durable as the 6-113. It is the same washer that Smoothdrag includes in their set of drag washers for the Squidder; the one meant to go under the main gear.

The belleville washer (key 8-60) under the spacer sleeve also rubbed against the inner part of the sideplate.

Some people just discard the belleville, but I placed it between the spacer sleeve and the star.

Here is the completed reel alongside a black 4/0 Senator, the drag washers lubed with Cal's grease, of course. My 4/0 has no clearance problems, so I was able to place a 6-113 washer under the main gear and add the additional 6-60 washers and metals without dremeling out the sideplate on it, too. Your mileage may vary.

alantani · April 29, 2012, 10:12:22 PM

thanks! with carbontex drag washers, no dremmeling is required.

George4741 · April 29, 2012, 10:23:22 PM

Thank you Alan. I was hoping you liked it.
George

Shark Hunter · January 07, 2014, 05:09:10 AM

I'm having the same problem trying to put a 5th Hex drag in a 114 HLW. Glad I read this. I will have no problem dremeling that plate out.

Alto Mare · January 07, 2014, 05:56:03 AM

Quote from: Shark Hunter on January 07, 2014, 05:09:10 AM
I'm having the same problem trying to put a 5th Hex drag in a 114 HLW. Glad I read this. I will have no problem dremeling that plate out.

I wouldn't dremel that plate if I were you, today we have lots of options.
If you're using 1.40mm carbon washers and Penn stock metal keyed washers that measure 1.62mm, you should be able to fit 4 carbon washers. The 4 carbon washers will bring you to over 55lb of drag, giving that reel 7 working surfaces. On this one you will need to add another metal washer on top, thick or thin, whatever works for you.
If you need to have 5 carbon washers get some 1.10mm sheets from Erik, they will hold up just fine. That will give you 9 working surfaces.
The other option is to let Lee make you some metal keyed washers as thick as the eared ones.

Usually the problem is not with the plate on those, but to be able to get the last carbon washer to sit flush or lower with the top of the main gear.

Shark Hunter · January 07, 2014, 06:11:08 AM

The problem I have Sal is that I used 5 of Lee's .47 washers and 5 .120 CF Hex's from Lee. I saw no problem fitting it in the gear until I put it in with the Belleville on top. I couldn't screw the bridge down. So I took off the Last Hex CF. Put another .47 washer and then the Belleville. Went right together, but now, the spacing sleeve isn't sticking out enough for me. I think the half frame HLW had a longer spacing sleeve. I need to take it back apart and re-evaluate the situation. The half frame HLW went together nice with four .140 CF's and the stock washers. The 9/0 went together nice as well, with 5 .140 CF's and 5 of Lee's .47 washers.
The .120's I tried in the full frame were from Lee's cutter and I think they were a little fuzzy. I don't mean fuzzy, like they were iffy. Fuzzy like the water jet makes them fuzzy or hairy if you will.(The CF shreds away from the laminate on either side a lot easier than .140 sheet)
Best scenario, I'll cut some more .140's and use stock washers. I think this is the best setup anyway.
When cutting regular washers out of .120, they seem to get fuzzier a lot easier than the .140.
I was just trying to cram too many reels together in one weekend. Three double dogs and Hex gears, plus the 114 black. I am happy with the other three. The 9/0 with a 5 stack of Hex washers is going to be tough in Tom's Frame. I have a scale now and that Boxer doesn't stand a chance!

Cone · January 07, 2014, 06:45:05 AM

I've done 3 of the 114h's with the hex drag and one on a 9/0. I got 5 1.2mm carbon fiber washers in each one. I used the stock pen washers for the lower ones in the stack. I changed out two of the stock pen metals with Bryans thin stainless washers. The fifth carbon fiber washer sits well in the gear. I had to put a couple stock Penn washers and the spacers on top. I put an O-ring on the sleeve holding it all together and dropped the bridge in to check for clearance. It's easier to do this without the dogs etc to check it.
Bob

Shark Hunter · January 07, 2014, 06:54:08 AM

I was just in a hurry on the full frame Bob. Lee sent me some free .120 Hex drags and I slapped them in there. I prefer the .140's. They are a lot more rigid. When I cut mine, they are tight on the sleeve. No need for any o rings. I think from now on. Its only going to be two ways. Four stack .140's with stock washers or 5 stack .140's with Lee's .47 washers.

I don't want to mix different washers. I have too many irons in the fire as it is.

Bryan Young · January 07, 2014, 06:58:37 AM

I have 0.02 in. full hard SS drag washers, both keyed and ears. I have completed my fitmet in my Penn Long Beach 259 with a 5 stack and will be doing a 113 soon.

Due to the cost of cutting, the cost per metal washer is $3.

Alto Mare · January 07, 2014, 11:42:56 AM

Daron, I did a few 113h's and 114H's and never had a clearance issue on any. I've noticed that one of your reel is similar to these:
http://pennreels.com/sites/all/themes/penn/images/repairbulletin1.pdf
Maybe that plate is shallower than the rest by the main gear $:-\$ , I don't own any, so I'm not able to check.

Shark Hunter · January 07, 2014, 02:36:39 PM

The half frame has the injection molded plates. I didn't have any trouble with these. I could definitely tell when cutting for the second dog, that the injection mold is not near as tough. Should I send these back for the compression molded ones? That bulletin is 10 years old.

Keta · January 07, 2014, 03:24:34 PM

Quote from: Shark Hunter on January 07, 2014, 06:11:08 AM
The .120's I tried in the full frame were from Lee's cutter and I think they were a little fuzzy. I don't mean fuzzy, like they were iffy. Fuzzy like the water jet makes them fuzzy or hairy if you will.(The CF shreds away from the laminate on either side a lot easier than .140 sheet)
Best scenario, I'll cut some more .140's and use stock washers. I think this is the best setup anyway.

The first cutting of CF went well, the second one didn't. There is a shop south of town that has a laser cutter, my next plan is to see if they will cut CF, if it can I be cut and what will the cost be. I have a pile of handles to finish, then CF washers and then back to playing with Penn 650SS-950SS dogs and ratchets.

Shark Hunter · January 07, 2014, 05:47:35 PM

Not knocking anything you do Lee. I'm just making excuses. You keep up the good work Buddy!

Alto Mare · January 07, 2014, 09:39:40 PM

Quote from: Keta on January 07, 2014, 03:24:34 PM
The first cutting of CF went well, the second one didn't. There is a shop south of town that has a laser cutter, my next plan is to see if they will cut CF, if it can I be cut and what will the cost be. I have a pile of handles to finish, then CF washers and then back to playing with Penn 650SS-950SS dogs and ratchets.

Since you didn't mention anything about Sal's order, here is a reminder, don't forget about my order

.....as always, no pressure just a friendly reminder.

Alto Mare · January 07, 2014, 09:53:32 PM

Quote from: Shark Hunter on January 07, 2014, 02:36:39 PM
The half frame has the injection molded plates. I didn't have any trouble with these. I could definitely tell when cutting for the second dog, that the injection mold is not near as tough. Should I send these back for the compression molded ones? That bulletin is 10 years old.

I believe someone else tried it in the past and couldn't get Penn to swap.
Some mentioned that they are just fine, I personally can't say that, simply because I don't have any.