LONG RODS vs BRAID

[LTM]

Guys,

Planning on having a couple of rods built in the next couple of months. In regards to one of them (an 8 foot 15-40# rod), i was re-thinking it's length.  I like 8' rods for casting futher AND  especially take the slack out of the mono in regards to hook-setting (still have a lot of J-hooks).  Now, I've been slowly changing-out the mono on my reels and adding spectra with a top-shot of flourocarbon or mono.  We know that spectra has little to zero stretch, so the need to take out slack from mono/floro is drastically minimized with spectra.  Therefore, other than longer casting distance from long rods; line stretch is mitigated by the spectra.  Also with spectra having a smaller diameter there's less friction though the guides enabling longer casts.  Bryan, I know you may be thinking Im answering my own question again  .  Last point; by going to a shorter rod (ie 7" vs 8') I gain the advantage in leverage as well as transporting the rod.

So, my question is: All things being equal (except rod length and mono vs braid/spectra), is there SIGNIFICANT difference in distance casting between a 7 foot rod with braid vs an 8 foot rod with mono?  Im assuming an 8' rod w/braid would out-cast the 7' rod w/braid. Would appreciate your real world experience.

Thanx in advance,

Leo

[SoCalAngler]

Leo it depends on how your going to use the rod IMO.

Let me start by saying how I setup my rods and reels. First I HATE casting spectra so on my 8' rods that I use for throwing surface iron I back the reels with spectra but have around 80-100 yards of mono on top. That way if I get boat or fish rub on my line or get in a tangle, because most of the time this happens towards the end of the fight, I can cut that portion of the damaged mono off several times before I have to tie on a new topshot.

Now for casting bait because I don't need to cast very often I go with short topshots.

IMO a 15-40 lb rated stick most often is best suited for 25-30 lb line. I like to pull real hard on 30 lb test so I like a 7' stick for fishing bait. Now I do fish bait on a 25 lb 8' setup rated 15-40 lb, the blank is a Calstar 270H-8 but I also use that for surface iron also so it has the long topper on the reel I use on this rod.

A 8' rod should always out cast a 7' no matter how you set up the lines on the reels. But, for me if I'm casting often with any setup I prefer to cast mono.

As far as when I swing on saltwater fish, well that is never.

Let me explain this a bit. It started out of necessity for me, you see on most trips on public or private boats I usually bring several setups to fish. I was a huge fan of circle hooks for some of the different species of fish I was targeting or their size and still am but in a much more lesser extent now. On trips I may have something like two 15 lb, two 20 lb, two 30 lb and two 40 lb setups all for fishing bait. On different setups I would a lot of the time tie on a J hook and others circle hooks depending on the type of fish I was looking to hook or their size. For me the more desirable, in my mind, bigger fish targeted or ones intended for release I used the circles on and the smaller less desirable or fish I kept of eating got the J hooks. Well as you can imagine in the heat of battle certain setups may need to be retied, I may want to switch to larger or smaller setups or I just grab the closest rod and sling out a bait. This is where it all began for me around ten years ago.

I'm betting you can start to see my dilemma can't you? I throw out a nice fresh lively bait, I'm picked up, line is ripping off my reel and it is time to set the hook and I think, oh crap which hook did I tie onto this setup? This is the precise moment in my fishing life I stopped swinging on fish. The reason really is in the critical moments where I had a split decision on what to do, I, well froze a bit and opted for the lesser of two evils and just engaged my reel and hoped for the best. By doing this on different trips and targeting different fish I noticed my hook up rates did not change but there was a big difference on where I hooked the fish.

With circle hooks it was the same as it should be but with J hooks I noticed a much better hook placement right in the corner of the fishes mouth. Very rarely do I hook a fish in the vital areas such as the stomach or gills and release if chosen gives the fish a much better survival rate when not hooked is these areas. Also this allows me to use lighter lines when targeting fish with J hooks because I do not get as much aberration from the fishes mouth or gill plate. As we all know lighter lines can and almost always do result in better hookup rates but not always better landing rates but as you also know you cant land a fish if your not bit. Also for the most part J hooks are smaller and less heavy than circles in the same size allowing the bait to swim much better. Yes I know each hook is different depending on manufacturer, style and strength but as a rule of thumb a J hook will be smaller and lighter than it's equivalent in a circle.

I use the technique of not setting the hook when fishing bait, surface and yoyo iron and with soft plastics I do not use hard plastics except for trolling so need to hook set the hook there. I just wind through the bite.

From Calico's to Cabrilla, Mackerel to Marlin and Sandies to Snook I no longer set the hook. Give it a shot it may work for you also.
     

[redsetta]

Great post SoCal - really enjoy this kid of detail.
Cheers, Justin

[LTM]

SoCal,

Thanx for the details that you give, I too appreciate it.    Let me restate my situation; Im getting back into fishing (havent been on a boat in over 7 years  ) slowly due to a back injury.  Some of my statements are general in nature (aka "swing" to set the hook) and I will be more specific in the future.  I still have the words in my head from Russ Izors (used to fish with him often) saying: "swing, set that hook".  That was a long time ago, for I too learned a decade or so ago to just point the rod at the fish and wind-down to set the hook (on most occasions).

My reels that do have braid on them have long top-shots of mono, so evidently I dont have or remember any experience with casting braid (thanx for the insight).  Now, I do plan to use some (if not all) of my bait reels with short top-shots of mono/floro to utilize the braid as a "kelp cutter" for when the fish run into the kelp.  Do you use short top-shots on ALL of your bait reels and just how long is "short"?

Whats your suggestion(s) regarding top-shots when fishing plastics with small level-wind reels for fishing Calico Bass (they love to run into the kelp when hooked) etc with something like my Calcutta CTE300?

From your insight (and others) I'll use long top-shots for my jig reels, BUT some of my jigging reels I use for bait as well (i.e. Avet LS6/4, etc).  Whats your suggestion for this particular application?

I have the Calstar 270H-8' also, and never thought of using it for casting jigs  (thanx). Do you use your NEW Penn Fathom15 (please do a tutorial) for a jigging reel on this rod?  I went to a sporting goods store today after fishing in the Marina and played with one; sweet reel!

Thanx all of you for you comments,

Leo

[SoCalAngler]

Let me start off by saying a few things and then I will get to your questions Leo.

I do believe in using spectra for certain applications but I do not see a need for it in all cases. The number one usage for me is what spectra was brought into the fishing scene for and that is to get more yardage onto my reels. With the advent of smaller reels that get the drag pressure and cranking power to handle bigger fish we on the west coast like to use smaller reels because of the ease and the comfort they offer in fishing live bait that is the mainstay here in So Cal. No other place in the world that I know of has a live bait fishery like we do here. Other applications would be for speciality setups like the "kelp cutter" or being able to use less weight at depth when bottom fishing. Last but not least would be when you need a setup that you will use for the "long soak", 100 yards or more before you can reach the biting fish. Spectra being lighter and having a thinner diameter allows the bait to be "fresher" when it reaches the zone. This is not a huge concern when fishing locally, except sometimes with the boat shy BFT, and is more of a concern when long range fishing. Long ranging opens up other spectra usages such as kite fishing but I won't go into that here.

1. On my bait setups that I use spectra on my topshot's are around 6-7' depending on the length of the rod. I set up my topshot's so the connection will be outside of my tip top guide when casting. The knot going thru the guides can get caught up or stick a little hindering the cast length. This length allows me to retie if needed a few times if my topshot gets nicked up close to the hook before I need to replace it.

No I do not use spectra on all of my bait setups. Mostly my 15-20 lb setups are not spectra backed. I do fish IN the kelp for Calico's but have not found a huge advantage on kelp cutter type setups for them. Now if I was picked up by a WSB or yellowtail I could see a big advantage of using spectra while in the kelp.

2. Like I said in my first post on reels I may cast often I like longer topshot's. I like their length longer than my best cast that way the knot will not be going thru the guides during the cast. I add extra length because if I do get boat/fish rub or get into a tangle close to the boat and damage the mono line I can cut out that portion a few times before I need to replace the topper. I like to casting mono over fluorocarbon because mono is more "limp" and costs less. Now if I want to tie fluoro on top of these setups with the long topshot's for fishing bait, again it would be around 6-7' depending on the length of the rod I'm using.

3. I don't own a Fathom reel (yet) I picked up a Saltist BG 20H to use on this rod about 6 months before the Fathom's hit the market. If you plan to use a Fathom for dual useage, jigs and bait, check out the 25N. I like the 25N for fishing the surface iron and it may be the next reel I pick up, also it should be fine for bait.

[LTM]

Thanx SoCal for taking the time to deliver the detail that you do.  Will take all of this into consideration when adding line to my reels.

Leo

[SoCalAngler]

Leo,

This is how I like to set up my reels. Is it the norm for others? Maybe, maybe not but this is what I have found works for me. You might want to consider going to a park, lake or short 1/2 day trip and take a couple of setups rigged in ways you have heard about and see what works for you. After all it is not going to be me or others fishing your gear so you should set it up the way that works best for you. Too many times have I seen people set up their gear in ways they have heard or read about only to later make changes because it was not the best match for their style of fishing and with a good spectra this can be costly.

P.S. I plan to do a 1 1/2 or 2 day trip not this week but next. Maybe leave Tuesday or Wensday night out of San Diego. If you want you can go and you could see how I have my gear set up, do a little test fishing with it and see how you may want to set up your stuff.

[redsetta]

P.S. I plan to do a 1 1/2 or 2 day trip not this week but next. Maybe leave Tuesday or Wednesday night out of San Diego. If you want you can go and you could see how I have my gear set up, do a little test fishing with it and see how you may want to set up your stuff.

That's a great offer SoCal - hope Leo's able to take you up on it...

[LTM]

Thanx SoCal for the invitation, I'll PM you.

Leo