alan tani @ alantani.com fishing reel repair rebuild tutorial lubricants
Reel Repair by Alan Tani
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Author Topic: lubricants  (Read 391498 times)
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oc1
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« Reply #480 on: December 30, 2019, 11:57:19 AM »

Grease is so mysterious.  I thought all oil and grease would emulsify inside a reel if it became wet.
-steve


Oh.... and welcome.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2019, 11:58:22 AM by oc1 » Logged
jurelometer
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« Reply #481 on: December 30, 2019, 03:07:43 PM »

Greetings to fellow hobbyists! Greases with PTFE SSL by Synco emulsify and seize when operating in a humid environment (rain!). The same tip about CalS lubrication - catching fish in the rain - the reel wedges. I drew attention to the ReelX Soft and Medium lubricant, but in the datasheet (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4JXOtP3XxetTERsSnIzT25QWk0/view) I did not see information about the content of PTFE in its composition. There is concern - how to behave when working in the rain! ?? Alan already exhausted his questions (difficulty of translation!) And I ask for help from everyone who has data on the presence of Teflon in its composition. Respectfully!

PTFE (Teflon is a trade name)  is extremely resistant to absorbing water.  I am not a chemist, but I would be surprised if its presence was a contributing factor in a grease retaining water and/or causing gears to jam up.  A grease  emulsified with water will loose some of its valuable properties, but it seems that it should  still have too a low coefficient of friction  to jam up a reel if the water is not freezing and the parts are not heavily coated in grease.

If you want exact specifications and are willing to stay away from reel specific products,  greases that are used in industrial settings will have data sheets that list standardized (ATSM) test results for water resistance, among other things. The world is full of lubricated machinery that works just fine in the rain. However, some greases can be a bit too thick for many reels, so if you use too much of the wrong grease, this can be a problem, especially in colder weather (I see your name is Snowmen). Moving thick grease around wastes energy.

In more general terms,  greases that are labeled for use in wet or marine environments will be your best bet. These greases will not absorb moisture for a longer period of service.  Also look at  viscocity at your operating temperature.  Some greases are labeled for cold weather.  for example Cal's has a regular and cold weather grease products.

Hope this helps,

-J
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« Reply #482 on: December 30, 2019, 05:45:47 PM »

Hi guys! Hi jurelometer! Thanks for your thoughts on my question. The gear transmission of the spinning reels during rotation serves as a “mixer” and “whips” the grease with water if water or condensate enters the reel. This is how the emulsion happens. All lubricants are emulsified, some more, others less. Are more susceptible to emulsification. I'm talking about gears of spinning reels now. Especially - alloy (aluminum + zinc + silicon!).
Here is an example of a failed SSL by Synco test. After servicing the gear train, the coil was specially lowered into the water, moved to the freezer, worked, then moved to the battery and worked again ... All this was done at home. The coil is jammed due to Teflon grease filler (PTFE!). On the same coil, another synthetic lubricant (polyalpholein!) Was used, which quietly passed the test. Having met ReelX grease on the pages of this forum, I was puzzled by the question - is there Teflon (fluoroplast!) In this grease? If he was there, I would not purchase it for maintenance of the spinning reel! Thank you and Alan for the answers. And I apologize for the automatic translation from Russian into English - the machine cannot correctly convey human thoughts. Respectfully to all!


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jurelometer
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« Reply #483 on: December 31, 2019, 12:01:29 PM »

Hi guys! Hi jurelometer! Thanks for your thoughts on my question. The gear transmission of the spinning reels during rotation serves as a “mixer” and “whips” the grease with water if water or condensate enters the reel. This is how the emulsion happens. All lubricants are emulsified, some more, others less. Are more susceptible to emulsification. I'm talking about gears of spinning reels now. Especially - alloy (aluminum + zinc + silicon!).
Here is an example of a failed SSL by Synco test. After servicing the gear train, the coil was specially lowered into the water, moved to the freezer, worked, then moved to the battery and worked again ... All this was done at home. The coil is jammed due to Teflon grease filler (PTFE!). On the same coil, another synthetic lubricant (polyalpholein!) Was used, which quietly passed the test. Having met ReelX grease on the pages of this forum, I was puzzled by the question - is there Teflon (fluoroplast!) In this grease? If he was there, I would not purchase it for maintenance of the spinning reel! Thank you and Alan for the answers. And I apologize for the automatic translation from Russian into English - the machine cannot correctly convey human thoughts. Respectfully to all!


Grease is made up of a base oil, thickener (usually a soap), and additives.

From what I have read,  the thickener is primarily responsible for demulsibity.

Polyalpholein is a synthetic oil that is used as a base for some greases.

PTFE  is an additive to some greases.  The particles are extremely small and the amount of PTFE in grease is very low.    It is heavier than oil or water.  If the PTFE managed to separate, it would settle due to gravity, and would make a small harmless layer at the lowest point.

There are probably many differences in the greases that you have  tested,  so you may want to reconsider the conclusion of PTFE as the culprit.   At least you should not be comparing PTFE vs. polyalpholein.

If you disagree with  this  and only want to know if Corrosionx grease  contains PTFE,  you can contact the manufacturer and ask them. 

That main gear in the photo looks pretty badly damaged.   Corrosion?

-J
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Wolli
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« Reply #484 on: December 31, 2019, 05:06:31 PM »

as per the UK distributor CX Grease does not contain PTFE

www.corrosion-x.co.uk/marine/

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« Reply #485 on: December 31, 2019, 08:29:31 PM »

Greetings to colleagues! I agree with the opinion of those who consider the cause of emulsification - base oil filler. In Super Lube, the filler became the cause of gear jamming! Unlike American and other global manufacturers, it is possible for us to get any product information of interest, any test data and characteristics that interest you. Buying grease from you in the USA or Europe is like buying an “invisible product”! You will only find out what you bought when you start using it. Did you spend the money profitably, or just threw it away!  Shocked Undecided
Here is an example of PTFE lubrication data sold in Russia:

ReelX grease: To my chagrin, I was in a hurry to buy in Germany. Huge shipping costs, but the saddest thing is that it is a mineral lubricant, not a synthetic one and there is no data on its behavior in the cold season, at 10.4 ° F
. Will it thicken and stop working - is unknown! The manufacturer made a "military secret" from the datasheet and guards it very strictly! If any of the forum participants Alan can help with information about ReelX grease, does it become more viscous in the cool season or does not change with changing ambient temperature? How long can it be stored? Did any of the participants use it in their spinning, inertialess reels Shimano&Daiwa?
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Gobi King
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« Reply #486 on: January 02, 2020, 11:58:47 AM »

Here is my experience which lubes/greases,

I have 2 girls and I have on the road a lot for work, so most of my toys are neglected or barely used few times in few years.

Engine oil, rear end, grease... dino or regular base ones nearly always went to curd. I switch to synthetic and what do you know, it even brought hair back to my head!

What it is worth, peak synthetic marine grease is available at pepboys for few dollars only.
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« Reply #487 on: February 13, 2020, 08:56:27 AM »

Quote
Unlike American and other global manufacturers, it is possible for us to get any product information of interest, any test data and characteristics that interest you.



See, now, that`s a new information for me, and a pleasant one. That`s real freedom.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2020, 08:57:31 AM by glos » Logged

fill up the reel casing with gearcase oil
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« Reply #488 on: February 13, 2020, 05:34:07 PM »

yeah, the freedom for Russian manufacturers & distributors to lie,
just like the West (before, only the Russian government could do it  Grin)

I can still read Russian well enough, so I don't need to figure out how to Google-translate a PDF:
DOES NOT SAY PTFE-BASED!!!  says, "with thickener based on aluminum complex
[whatever that is...  prob., aluminum compound...  prob., AlO2 dust...  so much, for alleged full disclosure]
...with added solid lubricants including PTFE" -- that's technically true,
if you dust a few grains of PTFE into an industrial vat of budget grease -- what are the other solids?

also says, "functional in humid and dusty environments"  Roll Eyes
I'm dealing with wet environments & I'm mighty dubious of the "dusty claim"
« Last Edit: February 13, 2020, 06:51:52 PM by philaroman » Logged
Lunker Larry
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« Reply #489 on: February 14, 2020, 07:33:59 AM »

I looked all over but did I see a post where it said to not use "food grade" PTFE on reels?

LL
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« Reply #490 on: February 22, 2020, 05:35:11 PM »

Which bearings need packing. 90% of my work is fresh water reels.
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Donnyboat
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« Reply #491 on: February 22, 2020, 05:58:07 PM »

Hi Larry, inox is made from lanolin, a grease extracted from wool, they use it in butcher shops, also for fresh water reals, bearings & bushes, Inox MX4 should work good, or a few drops of TSI 304 or 321, cheers Don.
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« Reply #492 on: February 23, 2020, 04:30:55 PM »

Thanks DB. Appreciated
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