alan tani @ alantani.com fishing reel repair rebuild tutorial Penn Torque 25N: Service Tutorial and First Look.
Reel Repair by Alan Tani
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Author Topic: Penn Torque 25N: Service Tutorial and First Look.  (Read 54300 times)
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johndtuttle
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« on: February 20, 2013, 08:13:47 PM »

Hey there Guys,

The new Penn Torque 25N is a reel I have been very curious about as I used to own a Torque 300. They are rock solid tanks and if there is one thing Penn knows it is Star Drag reels.

The older Torque series suffered from being over built (heavy) and gear ratios that were too fast for some applications (but better for others) and did not succeed against more refined options from Daiwa (Saltiga) and Shimano (Trinidad). I was hoping to take a good hard look at one of the newer Torques, explore how they might work for Vertical Jigging as well as traditional West Coast fishing and fortunately a friend had a hard fished one that needed service so I could rebuild it and get some photos of reel innards porn  Grin and play with it a bit.

I couldn't resist and mounted it up on a rod to see how it balanced:



Not too wide and very workable for vertical jigging, casting iron or live baiting. Caitlyn had to give it a sniff Smiley:





Just a little wider than my thumb and rated to hold 370yards of 65lb braid:



Penn has what they call "versa handle" which is just marketing speak for being able to adjust the handle length depending on application. The longer setting will provide more cranking power at the expense of a little speed and seems perfect:





Ok, that's the required beauty contest, let's get to work  Cheesy. The schematic we will be using as our reference can be found here: http://s7d5.scene7.com/is/content/purefishing/407-TRQ25N_Rev_1pdf

A Torx 10 quickly removes the 3 screws (39) on the Left Side Plate (27):



Breaking the reel into 3 parts to work on:



The Left Side Plate (27) showing the rather unique Click Housing (95) which allows Penn to give you 3 click settings: Off, light and heavy. Useful for fishing live baits:



Which we need to remove via 2 screws (63) to access the Left Side Bushing (40) and LS Bearing (55A).



The small Spring Covers (62C) can be removed as needed to get to the Click Pins and Springs (62 B-D) and I took this photo for your reference but did not proceed further as all was in perfect working order. That "E-Clip" that you see is for the button itself if you need to remove it:



This brings us to the Spool (29). Here is a shot of the left side. The black plastic Click Ratchet (81) comes off with some gentle prying revealing one of the spool bearings (55L). Take your time here and work "side to side" or use a dowel to protect the spool. The fit is tight and you don't want to damage your spool:





And the right side which you remove the Retaining Ring (71c) the Spool Driver (71B) and the right side bearing (55L):



This image shows the proper order of the assembly and the Spindle (71). The key is to make sure both bearings are on the same side as the "stop" in the middle. If you assemble it with the rt. side bearing on the wrong side of the stop the left side plate won't go on by about 2 mm and you will be scratching your head for hours as to what you did wrong (ask me how I know this  Embarrassed ). The Penn Schematic is a little cryptic in this regard.  



If you replace the Right Side Bearing, Spool Driver and Retaining Ring then thread the Spindle in from the right side (the stop passes through the Spool Driver easily) you can't go wrong and the left side will close very easily:



The owner asked me to return it in original configuration so I did not pull the shields on the bearings. I really need to get one of Alan Tani's bearing packers so that I can pump fresh grease past the shields without having to remove them. These are very small bearings and I feared damaging the retaining clips if I was too aggressive trying to get them out (nor am I a tech center, just a reel geek, so I can't easily replace anything I break Sad).

Ok, so slather all of that with your choice of speed lube and back it all goes.

Then we come to the Frame (183) where we find that the reel foot is permanently pinned. This is a mixed bag as it simplifies things for everyone but it leads to a spot where salt can collect and start it's damage:



What I do is flood them with Corrosion-X and then scrub with an old toothbrush that has remnants of grease in it to remove the crusty bits. The reel foot should be rinsed after every outing but you can also spray some salt away on it for protection.

As well, on the back side of the Right Side Plate we can see some salt crystals where it has worked it's way behind the spool. The question cam up as to what material the plate was made of and Penn confirms that it is anodized Aluminum:



After wiping it down I do the same with the toothbrush leaving a very thin oil/grease film for protection. That's the Pinion (13) poking up through the side plate by the way. It was entirely unaffected.

Ok, let's start on the Right Side Assembly (1). A quick look at the eccentric Lever (21) with it's Sems Screw (22) and Washer (26A). Not much to do here. Clean, lube and replace.



This is a good opportunity to remove the Spool Tension Cap (26B). This is not so much a cast control (and it has little effect on free spool) as it is a shim to center the spool in the frame so it doesn't rattle when casting. Those familiar with Penn Senators will recognize this.



We'll grease those threads:



And seeing as that is the Spool Spindle/Shaft peaking out there we will put a drop of Corrosion-X on there to lube it and the bearing it rests on:



Below the Handle we see a very common place for salt to collect:



We'll clean that up and move on. All very familiar territory with the star clicker and belleville washers etc. as we take off the bits:



With the complete Handle Assembly (24) below . From Right to Left There is the Handle Nut Lock (111A) and it's Screw (32), the Tension Washer (8B), Drag Star (10), Graphite Washer (4A), clicker bits (8 and 10B), Tension Washers (18), a tiny Shim (8A), and the handle Ball Bearing (55).



This frees things up to remove 3 more Torx Screws (38) and the Right Side Assembly (1, RSA) is Free:





Here we can see the Bearing Sleeve (98S) above, that goes inside the Anti-Reverse Bearing (98B) which has remained inside the RSA. It is a hexagon-ally shaped one but drops out for service as needed (below):



A look at the beautiful stainless Main Gear (5):





Which simply all lifts off giving you this assembly in order. The eared washers function effectively as 2 washers making this (3 x 2) functionally a 6+1 stack:



Below we find the Anti Reverse Ratchet (98) with it's "Ambassadeur-style" back up Dogs (15). Note how they grip the Ratchet now to guide your re-assembly. They rest on the Dog Pins (158) which like the Yoke Pins (12A), Yoke Springs (18A) and Jack (11) all are simply held in by a little grease and rest in the Right Side Plate (1A). When the RSA is replaced they all have little nooks that seal them in place



The balancing act that all who have worked on star drags are familiar with has begun  Cheesy where you need to keep the assembly steady in your hand or bits will go flying. All the parts merely rest in receptacles so prepare your landing zone in advance! Smiley



Looking at the backside of the RSA we see those previously mentioned nooks, the ARB in it's housing, a pinion Bearing (55B) held in by a Retaining Ring (13R) with the Eccentric (19), Eccentric Bushing (26) and it's Spring (20) at the top:



With a close up of the Eccentric in proper position for your reference:



On the Right Side Plate (1A) there is another Retaining Ring (26R) and pinion Bearing (55D) that should be serviced:



Before I took apart the RSA and removed the Handle I noted some salty schmutz (corrosion) on the bottom of the reel:



Now that we have things apart we'll remove the Gear Cover (1D) held in place by 2 5-40 Screws (101) as it retains the Gear Stud (134) and we want to see what trouble that corrosion has wrought. The stout gear shaft you see there is Manganese Bronze per Penn and should be nearly indestructible.



Unfortunately we find that there has been some damage done: YUK! Sad



Even after scrubbing it with the tooth brush and corrosion-x there is some pitting and the Bearing (55D) is stuck in it's housing:



And when re-assembled you can see some pitting right where the Gear Cover abuts the frame:



This corrosion may be compounded by the dissimilar metals that are in contact here, the stainless steel of the Gear Cover and the Aluminum of the frame. So a heads up in the future to give the Cover plenty of grease then putting it back as well as the edge of the Frame and watching this area closely. The bearing still turned smoothly but will be pulled and replaced:



Ok, Putting things back together is not particularly difficult just a little "balancy" as it all the bits rest in slots and things want to fall out when you are putting something back in. The only real pitfall are the Dogs. Remember this photo from above for their orientation:

http://alantani.com/gallery/17/9308_07_07_17_12_14_30_17700483.jpeg

But when you are futzing around with all the parts they can come off of the ratchet and those ears that have to properly grip the ratchet can get bent which leads to failure of your back up anti-reverse. Once you get the Main gear back on I always look underneath to be sure they are seated and if not, tap them on with a thin probe:



And again, this is your final assembly image before pressing the RSA and Right Side Plate together:



The Handle Knob is permanently attached. If so, there is nothing to do other than lube the articulating surfaces that are reachable with Corrosion-X.



The Penn Logo pries up easily giving us a shot at getting a little oil in from above:





And we're done!  Grin

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A few more shots:






And as compared to a Boss Fury 500N. It really is a quite narrow reel that looks much wider in the wide angle lenses used for close-ups It's pretty much identical to a Saltiga 35 or Trinidad 16A:


One of the nice things about doing one of these is you really get to appreciate how far Penn has come from the days of Squidders and Jig Masters. All of the same basic ideas they pioneered are still going strong but have been refined into an incredibly solid package. Pick a torque up and it may feel a touch heavier than a Trinidad 16, but it feels incredibly more solid with all machined frame and side plates from solid pieces of stock, not cast and then machined. It's also less expensive and Made in USA Smiley.

This feels like the last reel you will ever buy in this category for fishing up to 40lb live bait, vertical jigging with PE4-6 or casting surface iron. Everyone should have a reel this size and with these capabilities in their quiver.

I'll play with it at the dock tomorrow and give impressions as to casting and how it feels jigging and post an update.

Best regards

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

ps. Casting and some limited jigging results:

Casting surface iron pretty much as expected...it's a rocket! Cheesy. Very fast and I had forgotten how easy it is to cast 40lb mono on a jig stick as I have gone to straight braid. Almost made me lonesome for my old 9' Ulua Smiley. This reel will not limit your casting distance.

Retrieving rate is 6:1 and frankly, it's a little too fast for surface iron and you really have to consciously slow yourself down. Penn sells as an after market option their "Versa gears" that allow you to choose what ratio you prefer. They are $49 each and give the following "Inches per Turn (IPT)":

IPT rates
6-1= 40
5.4-1= 32
4.8-1= 29
The IPT is calculated at a 3/4 full spool.

I remain a fan of 4.8:1 but the 6:1 would be ideal for a Wahoo reel (speed buzz).

Vertical Jigging-wise...the commercial pier in Monterey is about 30 feet deep at the end (so not like a full day working 400gm jigs in 300 ft water with the current ripping Smiley) but useful when you've tested stuff there before and can compare it to other reels you've fished hard. The 6:1 retrieve moves a 300gm jig like it's not even there...Smiley. However, the proof of the pudding would be with a big 'un on the end and again, the 4.8:1 would be my choice. The 6:1 would be great for traditional yo-yo (speed retrieve) and fine unless you hooked into the larger model Yellowtail like at Alijos in the spring or Guadalupe home guards or larger model (75lb+) tuna, then the 4.8:1 would come into it's own.

SOooo there you have it. What Penn has done is a remarkable achievement imo, for a USA made reel that really is the perfect all around size and belongs in everyone's offshore/nearshore quiver.  You can fish Rockfish/Lings, Salmon mooching or trolling, lite offshore trolling (ie Albies), live baiting, surface iron, yo-yo, vertical jigging...Put it on a 9' Ulua, a 7' Calstar or a 5'6" Black Hole...heck pretty much anything I can think of if 350yards of 65lb braid and 20lbs of smooth drag will get it done. And that is a hell of a lot of fishing covered right there.

A beautiful little Tank that can nearly do it all. Cheesy














































« Last Edit: July 16, 2017, 06:55:39 PM by johndtuttle » Logged
Dominick
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« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2013, 09:01:18 PM »

John:  Terrific job.  I own International Torque 100 and 300.  I really like them alot.  If these are an improvement on the Internationals I am impressed.  Thanks for the tutorial.  Dominick
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johndtuttle
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« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2013, 09:13:58 PM »

John:  Terrific job.  I own International Torque 100 and 300.  I really like them alot.  If these are an improvement on the Internationals I am impressed.  Thanks for the tutorial.  Dominick

What Penn has done is take the weight out of the older Torques and improved the feel in the hand yet they still feel incredibly tough. Free spool is incredible with the "live spindle" which completely frees the spool and only limits how much free spool is achievable by how space age the lube you choose is.

best regards
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Bryan Young
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« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2013, 09:54:39 PM »

Awesome John.

I was wondering about the ARB Collar


Is it rounded on the inside or does it conform to the shaft so that it doesn't spin?

I'm also wondering of the shaft size where the ARB sits.  I am interested to know if it's the same size as other Penn reels, like the 4/0.  If it does, I'd be interested in getting a few of those ARBs and seeing if I could install them in my 4/0 or ProGear 545 for an added non-slip feel of the handle.

By the way, great work you got there. Oh crap, that reminds me, I got a few tutorial that I have to complete with words and some with photos.
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Cheesy I talk with every part I send out and each reel I repair so that they perform at the top of their game. Cheesy
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« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2013, 11:46:43 PM »

Excellent tutorial, thanks a lot. I see now that the Fathom is pretty much design wise a carbon copy of the Torque. Interesting though is that the fathom ARB seems almost double the length of the Torque. Strange how pricing works, Torque here by us is more expensive than the Trinidad, and PS Trini has a machined frame. 
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« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2013, 01:13:22 AM »

Thank's for a great tutorial John,very much appreciated.
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basto
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« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2013, 04:03:41 AM »

A beautiful reel, but a few things I prefer on the International Torques are their stainless gear sleeves, yoke and drag star wheel and sprung dogs. Just my taste, even if the dogs do bark.
I notice they do not call this Torque an International.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2013, 05:46:47 PM by basto » Logged
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« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2013, 05:55:00 AM »

I am curious to know if the holder plate is made from metal or plastic.
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« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2013, 07:08:25 AM »

Quote
I'm also wondering of the shaft size where the ARB sits.  I am interested to know if it's the same size as other Penn reels, like the 4/0.  If it does, I'd be interested in getting a few of those ARBs and seeing if I could install them in my 4/0 or ProGear 545 for an added non-slip feel of the handle.
That would be nice. Brendan.
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« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2013, 08:19:52 AM »

Really outstanding tutorial. Thanks!
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johndtuttle
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« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2013, 08:43:28 AM »

Awesome John.

I was wondering about the ARB Collar


Is it rounded on the inside or does it conform to the shaft so that it doesn't spin?

I'm also wondering of the shaft size where the ARB sits.  I am interested to know if it's the same size as other Penn reels, like the 4/0.  If it does, I'd be interested in getting a few of those ARBs and seeing if I could install them in my 4/0 or ProGear 545 for an added non-slip feel of the handle.

By the way, great work you got there. Oh crap, that reminds me, I got a few tutorial that I have to complete with words and some with photos.

I'll crack it open and check for you, standby.
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johndtuttle
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« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2013, 08:55:45 AM »

Excellent tutorial, thanks a lot. I see now that the Fathom is pretty much design wise a carbon copy of the Torque. Interesting though is that the fathom ARB seems almost double the length of the Torque. Strange how pricing works, Torque here by us is more expensive than the Trinidad, and PS Trini has a machined frame. 

Yes, international trade and currencies etc make for uneven pricing. For us, the Torque25N is but $429 and the Trinidad is $479.

Shimano, as I understand the process, does not machine from a one piece billet but from a cast part that has been "Cold Forged" to reach it's desired properties of hardness versus brittleness etc. This does make for excellent frame/body material that is more than proven in some of their very best reels. It creates a lighter part and easily allows the beautiful feel (ergonomics) in the hand of Trinis.

However, I know which one I would prefer to drop on the deck and which one would more likely be merely dented (or leave a dent in the deck Cheesy) and which seems more fragile. And I have seen images of cracked Trinidad and Saltiga side plates. I doubt these on the Torque would ever crack though they might dent your deck Grin.

I have loved the performance of every Trinidad or Saltiga I have ever owned or used but the new Torque's feel in the hand reminds you in a very good way that each piece of the body has been machined from a single piece of stock.

best regards
« Last Edit: September 09, 2013, 07:30:20 AM by johndtuttle » Logged
johndtuttle
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« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2013, 08:57:38 AM »

I am curious to know if the holder plate is made from metal or plastic.

If you can specify exactly what part you mean I can try and answer or ask Penn for you. I'm just not sure which plate you are referring to?
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johndtuttle
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« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2013, 09:08:13 AM »

A beautiful reel, but 2 things I prefer on the International Torques are their stainless gear sleeves and sprung dogs. Just my taste, even if the dogs do bark.

I think the ideal set up are the silent dogs that use a wire spring around the gear shaft to activate the dogs whenever the shaft goes backwards (seen in high end spinning reels and in the Okuma Makaira). Changes like that require complete redesigns however.

As far as stainless gear sleeves go, all of us that have purchased them for our "Tank" projects admire them and as much of a "fan boy" of the new Torques I am coming across as, I think the industry standard is sill being met here (*edit* Penn confirmed that the Gear Stud/Sleeve is manganese bronze and should be incredibly tough).

What you see in this day of $479 Trinis and $449 Saltigas is a tour de force for $429 and Made in USA. I'd say my glass is well over half full.

Smiley best
« Last Edit: February 23, 2013, 10:18:02 AM by johndtuttle » Logged
Alto Mare
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« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2013, 09:16:40 AM »

As always, excellent tutorial John, thanks for sharing it with us.
That is one nice looking reel and no lever for the drags....my kind of reel Wink. What do you think would be the best solution to stop that corrosion by the gear cover plate, just pack with grease or maybe a rubber seal?
I also noticed that you placed a nice amount of grease on the dogs, shouldn't those be dry, as the fins wok by friction on the ratchet? Undecided
I know if I do that to my spinners, I wouldn't get away with it.
Thanks again John, nice work!
Sal

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