Experimenting with the 113H drags

[Alto Mare]

Very nice work Sal. I'm sure Dawn could provide CF drags that would suit your application. I guess Doc could come up with a nice little milling set up and have a batch of gears ready in no time.
Keep up the good work,there's life in these old reels yet.

Thanks Tom.
That would be nice having them involved , but I'm not so sure about doc

You never know Sal,speak nicely to him,he has the know how and the machinery.

Tom, doc is a nice guy, I sent him an email once or twice. This might be small peanuts to him, I was just happy that he looked at it.
I don't believe he has any limitations in his work, I believe he did one of these gears for the 9/0 in ss.
I'm always impressed when he teases us with a little something, every now and then.
At times, I wish I was his apprentice, I would love to play with some of his tools
Later buddy.
Sal

[Keta]

A small drill press might make cutting the gear go faster.

[Alto Mare]

Yes Lee, you're right, but you still need to keep setting the gear and make sure it doesn't move.
A lathe would do it with a push of a button... once the computer has been set.



Here are a couple of shot of the jigmaster's gear that I mentioned above:



This one will need thinner washers, metal or CF. I need a hair more for the third CF to sit in flush.
It is now set up as the original with two washers,  giving it  three working surfaces.

[Alto Mare]

Sorry doc, I just realized you needed more info on the drag.
Here you go:



BTW, did anyone ever experience any issues with the drags with high settings on the Baja?
This one is rediculously thin, only .25mm :

I missed one dimention:

Sal

[paal]

Wrong! If they did fail, all you would get is about 5%...if that. the full stack would spinning as one unit on the carbon washer at the bottom of the gear.
Later Paal and thank you!
Sal

Yes, I realize my mistake now. No eared metal washers, only keyed in your stack
Cheers,
Paal

[Robert Janssen]

Right man, thank you Sal for that; that is exactly what i was looking for, since it tells us the radius of the cutouts.

Okay, so now i know... what to do with that? Well, I think that at the time i started wondering about it, I was probably thinking of using it somehow in the 114H / 115 gear, which is of course a bit bigger. It probably had something to do with that earlier thread about the 114 and drag stacks and whatnot.

This one here though, this is the 6-525 washer, right? Penn uses a number of similar washers in a number of reels- Torque, Fathom, 525GS, Baja, Squall- but there seems to be some lack of clarity in what is what...some sources show the 6-TRQ40 with six tabs as a common part to most or all of them, but comparisons to recent exposés show them with twelve tabs for some of the same reels. Which makes me wonder if there is perhaps a difference in size as well between the 6N-525 and 6-TRQ40 , perhaps to your advantage.

(twelve tabs versus six is not of any great importance; i'm sure a pair of nail clippers are perfect for that job)

These ones you've cut here (hexagon, by the way, is a very good choice of shape, since it can be cut very easily & efficiently with straight lines or stamped) are made of the homogenous carbon fiber sheet as opposed to the HT-100 composite wafer sheet, is that right?

Other stuff:

A small drill press might make cutting the gear go faster.

It might, yes, but only if using an end mill or slot drill on a plunge cut. Using it as a mill will almost undoubtedly cause the chuck or spindle taper to loosen from its socket and subsequently wreak all sorts of havoc and cause bad words to be spoken. (ask me how i know...idareya)
But, were the workpiece mounted very rigidly and indexed properly, sure... Alan has an old Rexon drill press he calls a POJ, but that isn't quite true. Rexon made far better machines of that class than do many of similar type. That might work. But seriously, one of you guys must have a little mill/drill and a rotary table or dividing head?

...I guess Doc could come up with a nice little milling set up and have a batch of gears ready in no time.

Hmm, yeah, maybe... lemme think... an indexer and a little pot chuck or dedicated fixture of some kind; that can't be so hard. Worthy of some thought.

...doc is a nice guy... This might be small peanuts to him... I don't believe he has any limitations in his work...I'm always impressed when he teases us with a little something, every now and then.

Um, yeah... that may be all true, but therein lies the rub... I don't intend to come off as a nasty curmudgeon or to tease folks, but yes, i am indeed somewhat reluctant to get too deeply involved in things of this nature, for several reasons. One of them being a certain degree of professionalism: I no longer have all the time in the world to do this. If i were to promise some folks (which would undoubtedly immediately swell to a whole bunch of folks) to make their gears, and then not have time/opportunity to finish as planned, there would be a whole bunch of disappointed folks out there. So, it is better to just say no.

Further, as i told Sal earlier, really, the thing is that after so many years of working endless hours for others in the name of honor, decency and a job well done, i'm just tired of it. Now i have a  regular income, and my (not unlimited) shop time is my own. So its better for me to indulge in reel projects of my own that interest me and have already waited far too long.

So, the small modifications i've posted here at times are not teases, but maybe more items of inspiration that might broaden the collective understanding a little bit. Sal took the hint, started thinking in a slightly different direction, and here we are...

Doc.

.

[Keta]

It might, yes, but only if using an end mill or slot drill on a plunge cut. Using it as a mill will almost undoubtedly cause the chuck or spindle taper to loosen from its socket and subsequently wreak all sorts of havoc and cause bad words to be spoken. (ask me how i know...idareya)
But, were the workpiece mounted very rigidly and indexed properly, sure... Alan has an old Rexon drill press he calls a POJ, but that isn't quite true. Rexon made far better machines of that class than do many of similar type. That might work. But seriously, one of you guys must have a little mill/drill and a rotary table or dividing head?

For the person that can not justify owning a mill using the drill table and one of the dremel bits and hand feeding the work would be faster/easier.  I need a way to index with the mill I have access to.

[Irish Jigger]

Would it be practical to make a simple indexing fixture using the Penn pinion to index the Jigmaster gear which conveniently has a 4:1 ratio?
Using such a fixture on the drill press with a slot drill or end mill as the Doc says would make short work of slotting the standard  brass Jigmaster gear.

[alantani]

i've enjoyed reading this thread immensely!  i wish i had the free time to jump in and help!   

[Alto Mare]

I just realized tha the 6-525 gets closer to the 5-114H (6/0) gear than the 5-113H (4/0) gear

Yes, I'm getting more comfortable with the dremel. This time it only took 15 minutes

The 6-525 is a little smaller, about 1mm, but the ears are tight

We're able to put (5) CF washers in this one, using the thicker metal washers,of course more if you use the thinner metal
Sal

[Robert Janssen]

Keta, yes, i can see how it would at least be a lot more practical than Dremeling it. A normal drill press usually maxes at around 3000 rpm, which is nowhere near what a Dremel does, but it would still be much steadier and more comfortable. Of course i realize not everybody has a milling machine at home, but i seem to recall someone else here had some sort of such thing... i don't remember who though.

Irish Jigger, well, maybe- good thinking, but i think part of the thing is that the idea will soon be applied to other gears of other sizes, so one might as well go all the way and invent a little jig with maybe a bearing, six holes and a pin or something.

However, even that would be sort of a compromise, since hexagonal objects don't really fit round slots anyways. So it would be better to make a 120* vee notching tool, or a punch to make drag washers that fit perfectly, (in several sizes of course) or start manufacturing those hexagonal cartridge adapters like i posted a while back... and so on.

It gets out of hand quite quickly. Which goes to show, that maybe Sal and a Dremel are a pretty good team anyway...

.

[Robert Janssen]

Oh, look at that willya... Alto Mare has been busy while i was typing. Yup, that's what i was after when i did that 9/0 gear. Would've fit very nicely.

I see now though, that the wall on the gear is getting scary thin. Maybe you could trim the tabs a little bit, use a smaller Dremel bit and get a slightly tighter fit?

Or maybe we could invent a method in the future to square off the tabs and slots, make them similar to clutch rings, or Everol or Duel drag washers?

Well, any way is a good way... Sometimes done is better than perfect.

.

[Alto Mare]

My thoughts exactly. I'm not that concearned about the gear itself, I'm more concearned about the ears. There isn't much CF material going into the cutouts , but, I'm still not sure if it would be a problem if we make the CF washer a perfect fit.? Could we attach a piece on the inside wall? I'm not sure how we would attach it though. This will beef up that area that supports the ears and the 6-525 would be perfect. BTW the space now is a little more than 1mm.
Hey, this is the beginning,I'm sure we will come up with something.
Definitely worth giving it a shot.... if you ask me.

[alantani]

you know, i could see the gear teeth collapsing at that thin spot.  that's the problem that accurate was having with their original two speed boss gears.  

[Alto Mare]

Well, I'm going to listen to you and Doc, Alan. You guy know way more than I will ever learn.
How about if we reverse their design and go with something like this

We could use some brass rods or ss, depending on the gear.
The metal washer would need to be smaller, but since we could probably foit (10) washers in the 5-114H, that wouldn't be an issue.
Just a thought