alan tani @ alantani.com fishing reel repair rebuild tutorial Penn Senator II 113HLW
Reel Repair by Alan Tani
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Author Topic: Penn Senator II 113HLW  (Read 28936 times)
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Alto Mare
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« Reply #15 on: May 12, 2013, 02:35:36 AM »

Ron, if you believe that this reel is fine as is, what are you going to do with all of the ss parts that you've been buying lately? Grin

FirePro, if you don't need to have  1000 yds of spectra, make that reel a narrow and save  yourself some money.

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FirePro911
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« Reply #16 on: May 12, 2013, 07:22:22 AM »

FirePro, if you don't need to have  1000 yds of spectra, make that reel a narrow and save  yourself some money.
This is a 113 that I am about to tear down, clean up, polish, double dog and new drag washers for my Captain at the FD. After comparing the two of them, I thinking about making mine a narrow now.


All that is needed for these later models, in my humble opinion, is a stainless gear sleeve. So I agree with Alan.
Having said that, I do like the new topless Tiburon frames. 
Pretty much for what I will use it for, that would be fine as I will go after shark, ten foot and up, plus offshore action. Though I love to mess around with reels and hotrod them along with other mods.

That's possible. What is the id I the hole and the of of the great sleeve?
Having taken measurements, I just do not see this happening without mods and fabrication.

Here is the sleeve that presses down on the drag washers.




Here you can see that there simply is not enough room between the side plate and the sleeve. As it sits, the measurements are 16mm X 17mm X 3mm. That leaves 1mm between the sleeve and the plate where the arrows are pointing.


On the plate, the thickness is 3mm between the arrows.


On my 7000i I am rebuilding, where the bearing goes is a lot longer. I pressed it out and will have to press it back in.


Here is the sleeve in the bearing and it moves back and forth freely to set the drag.




Back to this pic. The sleeve is 16mm and the hole is 17mm. If one really wanted to modify it to fit a bearing, I would think you would need to get one that measures 16mm X 20mm X 3mm. The 7000i bearing above measures 3mm from the sleeve to the OD of the bearing.


So if you found a bearing in that size, you would need to drill the hole out from 17mm to 20mm, actually a little smaller so you would have to press the bearing in place to keep it from spinning. Though that brings us to the 3mm thickness of the plate itself. Will that thickness hold the bearing in place tight enough to keep it from spinning? Because all we want is for the bearings inside to spin and not the whole bearing.


Maybe one last point that would restrict this, but not necessarily keep it from happening, the drill bit size. Finding the right size to fit the needs for the hole.

I realized this is a lot of work to a reel, but as I said, that is the part of the fun of the hobby to me. I'm not going the route of the bearing as described above....yet. Right now I am waiting for the Black Pearl Gears and the SS Gear Sleeve as I have everything else already. Plus deciding on what type of frame I want, either the wide or narrow.
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Bryan Young
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« Reply #17 on: May 12, 2013, 07:39:26 AM »

Sorry. I knew that I should not respond late at night.

First of call, you will need a keyed tube.  One that spins with the gear sleeve.  I have not found one that fits yet.  I think these may need to ve customed pieces.  I know a guy that will make it but wants like $40-$50 each. That is way too expensive for such modificaiton with very little benefit.

My brother is giving me a lathe and milling machine. I may try it as soon as he teaches me how to use it.

By the way, I love that sail boat, crackle glass tile.
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Cheesy I talk with every part I send out and each reel I repair so that they perform at the top of their game. Cheesy
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« Reply #18 on: May 13, 2013, 06:16:29 AM »

FirePro, if you don't need to have  1000 yds of spectra, make that reel a narrow and save  yourself some money.
So after scouring the internet, I see that there are a lot of the narrow frames out there. Is that the popular way to go with these?

If I go with a Tiburon or Jvariance frame I would like to drop from the HLW to the H as I am not sure about going as narrow as the N. I want to do a red frame with black spool.

So how much line would each use?
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« Reply #19 on: May 13, 2013, 07:00:42 AM »

actually, before dumping alot of money into this reel, i would just clean it up and fish with it as is for a while.  i think you will find that it fishes just fine. 

actually, before dumping alot of money into this reel, i would just clean it up and fish with it as is for a while.  i think you will find that it fishes just fine. 
I bought an older all post framed 113h and a later half frame model. I came to realise that you get the aluminium spool, the
ht100 drag and of course the half frame with the later model.
All that is needed for these later models, in my humble opinion, is a stainless gear sleeve. So I agree with Alan.
Having said that, I do like the new topless Tiburon frames. 

Fom what I read on here, the graphite frames are fine up to about 20 pounds or so of drag and then they start to fail. 20 pounds will fish 80 pound line and catch some awfully big/strong fish. Your 4/0 Special Senator rod is a winner also. Get that rig together with a spool full of 80 pound spectra and a top shot of your choice and you can fish 90% of the fish in the ocean.

Ron

Hey, but where is the fun in that?  Grin
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« Reply #20 on: May 16, 2013, 06:28:00 PM »

Ok, I ordered the black aluminum spool, 29L-113HL, and it is on its way. I just ordered a red Tiburon frame, 113H also. Plus a Red aluminum star drag, billet style.

So all I am waiting to order are the Black Pearl gears which should hit the States next week.

I also will pick up a Shimano TLD 30 two speed on an American Rodsmith and a Diawa 900H on an Ugly Stick this weekend to add to the arsenal. The Shimano is not even a year old and was used twice before they sold their big boat. I got both setups for 300 bucks.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2013, 06:44:04 PM by FirePro911 » Logged
RowdyW
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« Reply #21 on: May 16, 2013, 07:34:47 PM »

Firepro, think twice about an "aluminum" star wheel. They don't take to much force to strip them.    Rudy
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« Reply #22 on: May 26, 2013, 01:30:50 PM »

Ok! Got everything in for the rebuild finally!

Here it is with all the upgraded parts.
1. Pro Challenger SS Gear Set from down below in the Black Pearl section
2. Carbontex Washers from Smooooth Drag
3. SS Yoke from Smooooth Drag
4. Billet Aluminum T-handle and blank from Smooooth Drag
5. ABEC5 Ceramic Bearings from Smooooth Drag
6. SS Gear Sleeve from Alan Tani
7. Red Anodized Star Drag on eBay. NOTE: This drag could strip out as mentioned by Rudy. So I cleaned and polished the original star drag and will carry in tackle box just in case.
8. Double SS Dogs from Lee
9 & 10. Black Tiburon 113H frame with Black aluminum spool taking the reel from a 113HLW to a 113H.
11. Kit to secure reel to rod. Not sure if I want to use the black plastic part from the Tiburon frame or the SS part I go in from eReplacement.com.


Here I put the two screws in backwards to be able to get the new dog set in place so I could mark it and match it with the other dog. Arrows point to where I scribed it.


Once removed, you can see the scribe line to keep me on track.


Dremel stone with painters tape used to set the depth I needed.


You can see it is now the same depth as the plate.


Once I cut the slot, I set the dog back in to make sure I was still on track. The arrows point to where I need to dremel the area for the spring.


I used this tool to dremel the corner to hold the spring


Almost there


Here is the corner


Both dogs and springs in place


Plate shows that it still covers the new spring. The angle is bad as it does cover it well.


New Pro Challenger SS Gear Set, 4:1 ratio now.


This is what I used to lube everything up.


5 drag stack put together


Eccentric, Spring and Lever going on


Clutch Springs in place


SS Pinion Gear and SS Yoke in place


Eccentric Jack


Bridge Plate turned up to install the first dog


Turn it a little more and install the second dog.


Then push the spring in place


Turned it again to install the other spring


Rotated it back to where it goes. You can see that once it tries to drop back in place, the two dogs are under the Gear Sleeve.


I help my hand over the Bridge Plate, slightly at an angle toward the original dog, which is to the left in the pic. I then used a jewelers screwdriver and pushed the dog until the Plate fell down somewhat. As I continued to apply slight pressure to the Plate, I pushed the second dog outward until the Plate fell into place. Then as you are holding it all, tighten down on the four screws to hold the Plate in place.


Clicker Assemble in the other side plate.


Top spool is the HLW and bottom is what I went to, the H


The 113H Tiburon Frame and Spool.


Lube on the Clicker Wheel


All screws back in place


Smooooth Drag T-handle, It comes with a bearing for smoother operation


Finished Penn Senator 113H Reel! Now I gotta figure out what I will spool it with.






Here is a short video of the double dogs in action
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Mandelstam
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« Reply #23 on: May 26, 2013, 01:51:22 PM »

 Grin Grin Grin

Nice job! It looks awesome! And a nice tutorial on the double dog installation. I'm dreading that bit a little. I'm saving up for all the parts to do the full tank myself. This post will come in handy for sure.

Thanks!

/Karl
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« Reply #24 on: May 26, 2013, 03:03:41 PM »

ok, it's official.  the bar has just been raised......   Grin
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« Reply #25 on: May 26, 2013, 03:36:30 PM »

ok, it's official.  the bar has just been raised......   Grin

Oh, no! Not again!?  Undecided  It's sure lonely here on the bottom.
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Alto Mare
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« Reply #26 on: May 26, 2013, 03:46:29 PM »

FirePro, you're making me look bad so I need to criticize you. Angry Just kidding Grin
You did a wonderful job, the only thing I'm going to mention is that the cut out for the spring
appears to be a bit much. I don't believe that the spring will stay in place, it will eventually come out.
There are a few things you could do, the simplest thing is to nest two springs together, but that might not work.
You could add a piece of metal there as Justin showed us or you can place the bridge on a piece of flat metal and hit it with a hammer, using gentle fast blows.
Make sure you hold the piece flat and just hit the edge with an outward motion as it hits, you only need 1/16".
Here is what I'm talking about:



You might need to re-tap the screw hole, I got away with it, the srew was tight but from screwing and unscrewing a little at a time, I was able to work it in.
Great Job! Thanks for sharing.
Sal
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« Reply #27 on: May 26, 2013, 05:25:43 PM »

Nice job, FirePro. I dremel a point on my plates for the spring to slide on. I also put one on the dog. I didn't come up with it. someone else posted it on this site and I copied.  Grin   I don't have a pic but I think Sal did one like it also. I use handles like yours but mine don't have bearings. I'm not a fan of bearings in the handles.
    BTW I'm a retired professional FF. I look forward to seeing more of your work.   Bob
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« Reply #28 on: May 28, 2013, 10:41:23 AM »

Thanks everyone! I'll fish it a few times and open it up to check on the spring. If it comes out, then get on it. If you look at the pic where it shows the spring in place with the dog, you can see where I didn't square off the end or bottom where the spring sits. I left it round and a little beveled to push the spring inward.

Got a tourney this week and it looks like we will be fishing Wednesday/Thursday/Friday so far. While out there, I will use the reel to catch shark and see how it does.

Cone, I'm going on 20 years with the City this August. My plan is to do five more, then retire. I will get into our Drop Program, then make Captain (hopefully) to boost my retirement, then retire.
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Alto Mare
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« Reply #29 on: May 28, 2013, 03:12:27 PM »

Keeping pressure inward won't help, if it will come out it will be streight up. Like you've said, try it and see how it goes.
Keep in mind, I wasn't critisizing you, just trying to help.
Just in case it doesn't work, here is something else you could do, everyone should actually be able to do this:


Shape it a little so it doesn't interfere with the spool lip and you're set. That should never come off


and here you have the nice fit

Sal
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