Cleaning and Lubing an Anti Reverse Bearing, 6/2016 Anti Reverse Brg Performance

Started by josa1, June 24, 2013, 10:40:50 PM

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MAReelMan

Im slightly concerned about having greased this bearing instead of oiling it.
I did use the Quantum Hot Sauce grease. Which from what i have heard is on the same level as Cals, just more expensive.

Nessie Hunter

Quote from: MAReelMan on June 30, 2013, 12:00:23 PM
Im slightly concerned about having greased this bearing instead of oiling it.
I did use the Quantum Hot Sauce grease. Which from what i have heard is on the same level as Cals, just more expensive.

The rollers move and wedge against the shaft to stop it = one way..
Open up the other direction & allow the shaft to turn..

Grease is thick and can stop the roller bearings from moving freely...
oil is always recommended on them NOT Grease.... 






.
"Life is not a journey to the grave with the intentions of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body. But rather to slide in sideways, thoroughly used up, totally worn out and loudly proclaiming....
WOW!!! WHAT A RIDE!

MAReelMan

#17
So in my case, since its a spinning reel, this could cause my reel to actually spin backwards and forwards. Correct?

Edit:
Altho i was having no problems with e ArB having used grease. The perfectionist in me wouldn't allow it to be done incorrectly.
Pulled it apart again, degreased, and re lubed using Hot Sauce Oil.


Robert Janssen


Information on this is available from INA and NTN, who manufacture and supply millions of ARBs for thousands of applications:

"Lubrication:
        
For general applications (mixed operation involving locking and overrunning), the Schaeffler initial greasing has proved effective.
   
In order to ensure optimum function, it may be necessary to use different lubricants. The suitability of the lubricant must be verified by means of tests.
   
For applications in which one operating condition (overrunning or locking) is heavily predominant, a special greasing should be used. In this case, please consult Schaeffler Application Engineering.
   
It is not possible to calculate the grease operating life or lubrication interval for drawn cup roller clutches.   

If relubrication is carried out, oil should used for lubrication or a changeover to oil lubrication should generally be made.
            
At temperatures < –10 °C and speeds > 0,7 nG, recommendations on lubrication should be requested.
   
For temperatures above +70 °C, oil lubrication should be used. The oil level should be such that, when the drawn cup roller clutch is stationary and the axis is horizontal, it is immersed approx. 1/3 in the oil bath.
   
Suitable oils are CL and CLP to DIN 51517 or HL and HLP to DIN 51524.

Viscosity classes: see table.
   
Viscosity classes:
        
Operating temperature
   Viscosity class
+15 °C to +30 °C
   ISO VG 10
+15 °C to +90 °C
   ISO VG 32
+60 °C to +120 °C
   ISO VG 100"

------------------

"Lubrication:

Oil lubrication is optimum for these one-way clutches,
but generally grease lubrication is mostly applied to this
type of one-way clutch.

NTN one-way clutches are filled
up with a suitable grease. These clutches need no further
grease replenishment, but subject to general applications.
In replenishing, good care must be exercised of too
much grease filling. Too much filling could cause
interference with smooth clutching.
For selection of an appropriate lubricant, contact NTN Engineering for technical assistance.

Allowable operating temperature For Type HF and HFL
...
Oil lubrication : -10 to 120 ̊C
Grease lubrication : -10 to 70 ̊C
When intending to use the oneway clutch at the upper or lower limit for its allowable operating temperature range, contact NTN Engineering for technical assistance. "

   
        

josa1


MAReelMan

QuoteOil lubrication is optimum for these one-way clutches,
but generally grease lubrication is mostly applied to this
type of one-way clutch.

Yup, sounds like either or will work just fine lol.

Killerbug

http://forum.esoxhunt.dk
-----------------------------
They say Catch and Release fishing is a lot like golf.
You don't have to eat the ball to have a good time

johndtuttle

Thanks for this fine post with great photos :)

I would add a little bit about ARBs and Roller Clutches and their lubrication that has trickled down to me from the pros. The type of "Barrel" clutch that you see here with a nylon cage and springs is not very finicky when it comes to grease or oil...*IF* the grease is kept fresh. Down the road Grease turns to bubble gum and Oils to varnish if left uncleaned for long. Your own familiarity with your choice of lube should be your guide. I think most here are more comfortable with oil in a Barrel Clutch having seen so much "gum" residue from old grease inside of fishing reels but I have seen more than a few from the factory with grease in them.

Time will tell and reels with dog back ups to an ARB are preferred by reel techs who see a lot of conventionals once the reels start producing 10+ lbs of drag, I'd say. This is because the ARB is placed on the handle and it suffers from the mechanical advantage of the gear ratio. If you are using 10lbs of effective drag at the spool your ARB is experiencing 4-5-6x that amount as the force is multiplied by whatever your reel's gear ratio....These small clutches are really asked to perform at their very limit.

Roller Clutches (seen in Shimano spinning reels) are far more persnickety when it comes to lube. This is due to the greater travel their rollers experience and the light wire springs that are used to maintain the action/tension. Here, the choice is perfectly clean and "dry" as the rollers have a nylon "table" that their wide bases must move freely over. The nylon has a low enough friction coefficient that no additional lube is required.

josa1

July 2014 Update.....I am in the process of servicing three Shimano Trinidad reels and found that I could adequately service these bearings by just removing the cage from the bearing housing while leaving the housing in the reel sideplate.  This saves a lot of time, and as mentioned above it is sometimes difficult to remove the bearing housing from the sideplate.

The process was the same, just pushed the bearing cage out of the housing by reaching thru the drive shaft hole in the right side plate with my removal tool.  The cages came out easily  :D :D.

I suppose the only time you'd have to remove the housing if you are concerned about rust or corrosion on the outside.

josa1

tristan

Outstanding job!

I have a ARB on a spinner that is making lot of noise.   Would this procedure work for cleaning it up and fixing the squeek?

Also, would Tetra reel lube (oil) be the correct lube?

Thanks,

Tristan

josa1

Hi Tristan,

I'm sure it would work if it's the same type of bearing.

I believe it might work even if it wasn't the same type of bearing, so long as you use somewhat the same procedure.  I've fixed a few of these and never had to scrap one.  While on a fishing trip off of Baja, I fixed one for a friend that had a lot of corrosion and rust inside the bearing on the bearing housing.  I was able to repair that one by just patiently scrapping/sanding the corrosion until the bearing housing was clean.  I did tell the owner of this reel that he should have it replaced as soon as he got near a repair shop on shore!

Good luck!, and would be interested to hear how you make out.

Note that one of the respondents above fixed a similar bearing that was on a spinner.

josa1

johndtuttle

Quote from: tristan on January 27, 2015, 11:52:06 PM
Outstanding job!

I have a ARB on a spinner that is making lot of noise.   Would this procedure work for cleaning it up and fixing the squeek?

Also, would Tetra reel lube (oil) be the correct lube?

Thanks,

Tristan


Before you get too crazy taking it apart you can try flooding it with corrosion-x. I have seen amazing amounts of rust flush out after soaking and cranking a bit, soaking and cranking.

This is always a temporary measure though, you are gonna need to replace it before you really trust it ever again.

josa1

Hi John,

Definitely agree, if you attempt to flush the bearing and don't take it apart, clean it thoroughly, and visually see that it's in top condition, it should be replaced.

But, if you do it the way the post shows, I believe you can have all the confidence necessary that the bearing will function correctly.

Plus, it's FUN to do!  You can always replace it if you discover something that can't be refurbished to your satisfaction.

josa1

josa1

Thought I would look up the cost of the Shimano Anti Reverse Bearing...couldn't find much on pricing on the net, but did find one.

Don't know how representative this is, but on Mike's web site in FL, they want $17.19 for the bearing for a Trinidad 40.  I know that's not the end of the world, but it's not insignificant either.  Naturally, there would also be a few extra $ for shipping and handling.

I think that most of us will spend what is required to maintain the reels we use in top condition.  I'd hate to think of losing a nice Wahoo on a mal functioning anti reverse bearing.  Definitely not worth that.

That's why I make servicing this bearing on my 3 Trinidads a part of my normal maintenance procedure, and service each of them after every trip using the exact procedure posted.  My biggest problem is, there's never enough trips!

josa1 

steelfish

Quote from: josa1 on July 24, 2014, 06:39:52 PM
July 2014 Update.....I am in the process of servicing three Shimano Trinidad reels and found that I could adequately service these bearings by just removing the cage from the bearing housing while leaving the housing in the reel sideplate.  This saves a lot of time, and as mentioned above it is sometimes difficult to remove the bearing housing from the sideplate.

The process was the same, just pushed the bearing cage out of the housing by reaching thru the drive shaft hole in the right side plate with my removal tool.  The cages came out easily  :D :D.

I suppose the only time you'd have to remove the housing if you are concerned about rust or corrosion on the outside.

josa1

I just noticed on my trini16 that the handle moves a bit back when few weeks ago the AR bearing was kicking as soon as you move the handle backwards, now it has some play when you move the handle back.

I was thinking to go for a new AR bearing but I will try to see if this method works.

one question, how do you manages to take just the bearing cage and left the housing on the handle plate?
what tool did you used?

thanks, great post by the way.

The Baja Guy