Penn long beach 60 frame

[RowdyW]

I haven't seen lubed carbon fiber drags burn up anywhere near as often as materials that were used in the past. I love the 114H, but today it can be fished as an 80-100 pound reel. I have a 112H that is a 60# reel and the 2/0's work with 30. I'm the kind of guy who spends more money on reloads than comercial ammo to put my best foot forward and who wears both a belt and suspenders. I will spend the money to build a reel to the maximum extent feasable just because I can.

Ron

First, who was talking about a 114H? Second, who was comparing CF to older material for drag washers? Third, you spend money to the max but you pinch pennies on reloads. Fourth, I'm at the beach or boat & I don't need suspenders or a belt on my bathing suits, just a draw string. Sure is nice here in sunny S. Florida.

[Ron Jones]

First, OK I meant 113H
Second, I read the small drags as old drags. I've never seen greased CF give up or seize  on a fish, although it may actually be cool to see that fight, bigger drags do not mean more drag pressure so in this case does size really matter?
Third, many of my handloads are way more expensive than factory rounds. They shoot really small groups and perform exactly how I want though.
Fourth, good luck at the beach, I've never worn a suit on a boat.

Few would argue that it don't get nicer than Oahu!! 

Ron

[Alto Mare]

Easy there big fella
Ron, I've heard that myself about bigger drags not giving more drag pressure. It might all make sense on paper and statistics, but I've found on my reels that bigger washers do put out more drag pressure.
Sal

[Ron Jones]

Sal,
I've actually put some thought into that. The fact that size doesn't matter is a law of physics that many things in this world are based on, so it is the truth.

What I have noticed is that we can get more drag from bigger reels with bigger stars and bigger gear sleeve's. I hypothesize that one reason that is is that we can physically put more torque on the bigger star and larger gear sleeve. The thread pitch may also have something to do with it.

Some supporting evidence:

The 500 with Bryan's drags can hold simillar pressure to a 113H with a 5 stack when the Jigmaster is really cranked on.

The drag you got from your upgraded 49 was simillar to what everyone else gets with 3 drag washers.

Most importantly,  Alan has said 5 pounds per disk, and I think he is right.

Ron

[RowdyW]

Larger area with equal pressure means more stopping power. Try stopping a semi with Kia brakes.

[Alto Mare]

Sal,
I've actually put some thought into that. The fact that size doesn't matter is a law of physics that many things in this world are based on, so it is the truth.

What I have noticed is that we can get more drag from bigger reels with bigger stars and bigger gear sleeve's. I hypothesize that one reason that is is that we can physically put more torque on the bigger star and larger gear sleeve. The thread pitch may also have something to do with it.

Some supporting evidence:

The 500 with Bryan's drags can hold simillar pressure to a 113H with a 5 stack when the Jigmaster is really cranked on.

The drag you got from your upgraded 49 was simillar to what everyone else gets with 3 drag washers.

Most importantly,  Alan has said 5 pounds per disk, and I think he is right.

Ron

Ron generally speaking, yes 5lb per washer is very close, but not always accurate.
I'm getting 22lb at almost max on this reel:
  http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=7315.msg62039#msg62039
This one has the 6-950 washer. With that same washer, I'm also getting 22lb with my 9500ss spinning reel
Sal

[George4741]

A rather interesting conversation going back and forth, here.  Reminds me of the Hatfields and McCoys.

On the subject of handloads/reloads; I have several firearms who's barrels have never been polluted with a factory round with the possible exception of some testing the factory may have done. 

Gear ratio is another thing that factors in to the drag equation.  For example, all else being equal, a 1:2 geared reel will get a higher maximum drag than a 1:4 ratio.  I believe Robert Janssen mentioned this on another thread.

George

OMG did I just write that!   Now I have to worry about the NSA knowing what I may have.

[Ron Jones]

Larger area with equal pressure means more stopping power. Try stopping a semi with Kia brakes.

I agree that you can't stop a semi with Kia brakes. However, 4  disks and 4 pistons with some hydraulic pressure behind them are totally different than  20 S-cams pushing against rotors with 140 pounds or so of pressure. 10 disks with 10 pistons would have a better shot if you could figure out a way to keep them cool. All braking is a shift of energy from kinetic to heat.

You can argue with the PHDs about surface area. I only know that my submarine and torpedoes have dome pretty nifty stuff that work based on the principle.

Ron

[RowdyW]

Since when did they start putting brakes on OUR torpedoes? Who makes a reel with hydraulic pressure to apply drag pressure? Maybe you should invent one.

[Ron Jones]

Look, you can believe what you want. I'm really not trying to get into anyone's breakfast cereal. For the record, you brought up the hydraulic system, all I did was describe it in order to show that your example didn't hold water. If that's not the way you see it then that's fine. Let's just get back to fishin'.

Ron

[RowdyW]

I didn't bring up hydraulics only that bigger brakes have more stopping power. Drags on a reel are brakes & more surface area equals more stopping power. If that wasn't true then why doesn't Penn or any other company put 155 sized washers in reels like a 16/0 reel? 

[Ron Jones]

OK, this is as clear as I can make it.

The formula for friction is F (coefficient of friction)x normal force. Notice the lack of surface area. The reason bigger drags are better all else being equal is because big areas of material can absorb more heat before experiencing a degradation in F. As a rule, in standard configuration each drag disk can be expected to provide about 5 pounds of drag with a Jigmaster gear sleeve everything else notwithstanding. That means 3 disks=15 pounds weather it is a 155 or 500. Increase the size of the star and the gear sleeve and you can put more pressure (normal force) on the disks and therefore get more drag from each disk but again the surface area has no bearing. Please understand that this discussion is talking only about drag disk performance and does not consider spool diameter, gear ratio or anything else.

Like I said, I'm fine with you disagreeing, but I recomend you do some research. Surface area just does not matter.

Ron

[RowdyW]

Your calculations are all wrong. You are just picking 5 lbs. per washer of any size out of the air. Get out your test equipment & prove it not just to say something to get the last word in. You always have to have the last comment even if its not called for. You always have to have the last post on any subject here to satisfy your ego. Get a few more years of experience under your belt before you think you know how to solve every problem on this site. Now go to your room & stand in the corner for a while. Don't forget to leave the last post.

[Keta]

With the same force being applied the more contact area the more friction thus more "breaking".

[RowdyW]

That's correct Lee, as I have said all along. Some people think they have the answer to any problem. They just don't sit back and listen once in a while.