Why do you think Shimano....

FatTuna · February 03, 2016, 07:32:06 AM

Why do you guys think Shimano puts so little grease in their reels? The other day I had a friend drop off a few reels for me to service. In the lot there were a few very new Shimano spinning reels. Guy said he barely used them but wanted them serviced anyway. I took them apart and it looks like there was little to no grease inside them.... I was thinking about it and I can only speculate as to why they do this. Cost.... Efficiency (on an assembly line it's inefficient to hold up the line by spending too much time on each reel). Planned obsolescence....

Those are all really poor reasons to not properly grease a reel in my opinion. Can you guys think of any rational reasons why they choose to assemble their reels like this? I don't get it.

bigggfish · February 03, 2016, 07:54:27 AM

Some manufacturers still are old school I guess. Carl Newell used to include a Lubrication Warning with his reels which was a big red box that said "USE ONLY ENOUGH GEAR GREASE TO MAKE IT BARELY VISIBLE ON GEARS, EXCESS GREASE MIGRATES ONTO DRAGS AND RENDERS THEM USELESS!".

cbar45 · February 03, 2016, 08:12:06 AM

Less grease in anticipation of a pre-service comes to mind, but that is probably being overly optimistic.

Chad

Jeri · February 03, 2016, 08:46:27 AM

QuoteLess grease in anticipation of a pre-service comes to mind, but that is probably being overly optimistic.

I think the optinion of 'pre-service' is unlikely, as 99.9% of folks don't even service their reels, so the concept of 'pre-service' is likely to only be those that are probably members of this forum.

I think the answer to your original question has more to do with economics - time and materials on the production line. If they put in just enough grease to last the reel through the average angler's fishing time - to last beyond warrenty, then they are winning - the reel didn't fail during that time, so no comeback to them due to lack of grease failures. Perhaps a little cynical, but isn't that the kind of design mentality that big companies are pursueing these days?

Just a thought.

Cheers from sunny Africa,

Jeri

cbar45 · February 03, 2016, 10:02:22 AM

Quote from: Jeri on February 03, 2016, 08:46:27 AM
QuoteLess grease in anticipation of a pre-service comes to mind, but that is probably being overly optimistic.

I think the optinion of 'pre-service' is unlikely, as 99.9% of folks don't even service their reels, so the concept of 'pre-service' is likely to only be those that are probably members of this forum.

Don't know the actual numbers, but opening up a new reel and making sure all parts had adequate grease/oil goes back quite a ways. It was something being done and recommended (albeit by a few) long before this forum brought it to the internet.

Chad

Jeri · February 03, 2016, 10:40:46 AM

Hi Chad,

True, but even today, just how many people do consider a pre-service???

Running a custom rod building business, we sell a few reels, and we do 'pre-service' the reels - multipliers or fixed spool. Of the 20 or so shops selling reels on this coast, we are the only ones to offer that as part of what we do.

Of the anglers that we service reels for, probably 100% have never take one apart, so 'pre-service' would not be an enytity they would consider. This probably is an anomoly of fishing in southern Africa, where 95% of anglers will never take their reels apart - using the excuse that it is too complicated, and the likelyhood of hundreds of springs jumping out as they open the reel!!!! On the flip side, they will take a rifle from the gun cabinet, go for a walk in the bush, not fire a shot, then when they get home do a full field strip and rebuild on the rifle before they put it back in the gun cabinet. Despite our best efforts to show how to servcie reels, and share knowledge, they will still bring their reels in for a service before their main holidays or fishing events.

You are right,the concept of 'pre-service' is quite well established in time, though probably restricted to a minority.

Cheers from sunny Africa,

Jeri

cbar45 · February 03, 2016, 12:02:20 PM

Hi Jeri,

Well, with the advent of internet and social media, I would hope more anglers are becoming aware of the benefits pre-service gives.

My observation here on the Big Island has been that people resort to working on reels themselves--or ask around for someone who does--reason being that only a few shops offer service and there is often a waiting list. I know someone who just recently ordered mag-seal oil so he could service his own Saltiga; He got tired of looking for a shop with quick turn-around that was able to do the work for him.

Yes, it is unlikely Shimano expects their customers to do a pre-service. My comment of it being a possibility was meant to be tongue-in-cheek, but that type of tone doesn't always come across accurately from behind a keyboard.. $:-\$

Chad

foakes · February 03, 2016, 02:41:47 PM

We need to remember that we on the Alan Tani Site -- are just a bunch of "Reel Nerds".

That is our passion.

But few others in the world are going to go that far into a reel -- they just want to go fishing.

Just like me with a computer -- I may know a few things basically about programs or hardware -- but I really just want to know how to turn it on.

Just my opinions.

Best,

Fred

handi2 · February 03, 2016, 05:06:09 PM

I see the same with almost all new spinning reels. With Shimano reels being one half composite the amount of grease used is just enough. Just enough makes the reels spin effortlessly.

johndtuttle · February 03, 2016, 05:31:02 PM

Quote from: handi2 on February 03, 2016, 05:06:09 PM
I see the same with almost all new spinning reels. With Shimano reels being one half composite the amount of grease used is just enough. Just enough makes the reels spin effortlessly.

This is it right here. Shimano wants their reel protected, but they want to use the lightest and fastest lubes to accomplish that goal so that the reel is "smooth" at the point of purchase (really, "free-spinning"). Every lube chosen and the amount used is based on that.

Now, this may be crazy talk, but time and time again this is what their customers appear to list as the thing they love the most about Shimanos "they are so smooth (free spinning)". So Shimano is replying directly to the majority of their customers and lubing their reels to satisfy them.

Interestingly, Shimano is now using "core protect" in their new Stradic FK which is essentially a spray Corrosion-X HD like that seen in an Okuma. So they do see the value of corrosion protection to be sure.

Penn conversely simply uses a light marine grease (Penn Precision Grease) in an "Alan Tani" style general application but they occasionally come under fire for feeling a little sluggish in comparison to Shimanos, though the average Penn reel is better protected, imo.

Its the perception not the reality that matters most at the point of sale. The light free-spinning nature of Shimanos is perceived quality. Only really experienced guys (who no longer buy many new reels) understand the value of marine grease and know complete protection comes at a cost of a little sluggishness in smaller reels.

Bryan Young · February 03, 2016, 06:43:52 PM

For my new spinning reels, I will open it up, clean out the bearings with acetone in an ultrasonic cleaner, blow dry, then drop them in TSI301 for about 15 minutes (until I am ready to install them). I will add CorrosionX grease to the gears and spray CorrosionX HD in the body and brush around until all parts are coated and close it up. Depending on the sealing of the real body and cover, I may never have to go back in the reel again. None of my spinners have had issues thus far, but I don't fish them as hard as my brother, so I'll check out his reels at the end of next season or if I'm in Hawaii.

Bryan

sharkman · February 03, 2016, 08:00:55 PM

A distributor stated the reason was to maintain integrity of box and if reels set too long they will become stiff

swill88 · February 03, 2016, 10:12:21 PM

Quote from: Bryan Young on February 03, 2016, 06:43:52 PM
For my new spinning reels, I will open it up, clean out the bearings with acetone in an ultrasonic cleaner, blow dry, then drop them in TSI301 for about 15 minutes (until I am ready to install them). I will add CorrosionX grease to the gears and spray CorrosionX HD in the body and brush around until all parts are coated and close it up. Depending on the sealing of the real body and cover, I may never have to go back in the reel again. None of my spinners have had issues thus far, but I don't fish them as hard as my brother, so I'll check out his reels at the end of next season or if I'm in Hawaii.

Bryan

Thanks Bryan... gonna do it your way.

steve

FatTuna · February 04, 2016, 07:13:04 AM

Originally when I was making this thread, I wrote that I thought it might have to do with making the handle as easy to turn as possible. Then I deleted it. Wasn't sure about that one.

I've heard people comment on that before. One or two times, I've given a reel back to someone and they've said that they prefer it lighter to turn. I ended up taking some grease out for them and switching over to Shimano's permalube. Packing the bearings can slow down certain reels.

In my opinion, a reel needs more grease than what they are putting in there. In looking at the gears in these last ones, the grease wasn't even on the gears anymore. It all was stuck to the inside of the frame.

In regards to the pre-servicing. I agree with what the others said. I think I've only met one person that was into servicing their own gear. Fisherman are a creative bunch though. In the future, I could see it becoming more common as this website spreads. As of right now, I think most people buy a reel and fish it until it doesn't feel "good" anymore.

The last set of Penn reels I serviced (Penn conflicts). Looked like an AT member serviced them. Thin layer of grease on the sideplates and frame. A more liberal amount of grease. Pretty sure these were right from Penn. I think they have been reading some stuff on here.

FatTuna · February 04, 2016, 08:02:49 AM

Quote from: Bryan Young on February 03, 2016, 06:43:52 PM
For my new spinning reels, I will open it up, clean out the bearings with acetone in an ultrasonic cleaner, blow dry, then drop them in TSI301 for about 15 minutes (until I am ready to install them). I will add CorrosionX grease to the gears and spray CorrosionX HD in the body and brush around until all parts are coated and close it up. Depending on the sealing of the real body and cover, I may never have to go back in the reel again. None of my spinners have had issues thus far, but I don't fish them as hard as my brother, so I'll check out his reels at the end of next season or if I'm in Hawaii.

Bryan

Some great information in that post. I didn't even know that CorrosionX made grease. Just went on my list. I like the idea of coating the inside with HD spray. Ultrasonic cleaner is also on the list.