Abu C2 series.....gear/drag upgrade?? IAR??

[Prefessa]

Guys:

I have a 6500 C2 series reel and now that I have a spare gear set from a 5500 C3 can I swap out the gears to the gear set that has the updated multi disk Drag?? Also from What I have been told...you need to replace pinion and main together....Not just the main...is that correct??

Now that reel has the old silent dog anti reverse. I have a side plate from a 5500 C3 with a blown IAR bearing. Was toying around the idea of pressing in a new IAR and using the sleeve and upgrading the reel to IAR.

If So...would you just leave out the silent dog?? Or leave it in?? Redundant?? Problematic

For 10 bucks(+SH) I could get a new IAR bearing and try my hand at this repair via the tutorial.

Thoughts??

[Ken_D]

Hello. Does your spare 55 gearset include the driveshaft, or just the gears?  How old is your 65, and what's the number off the frame reels foot?  You have zero chance of success until more info is provided. I'm leaning to a no-go until you indicate the age of the 65. Abu never made a C2. Just a C, a C3, C4, C5. You should replace gears as pairs, or they get pretty noisy, and vibratory.

You cannot put ultracast gears in a non-ultracast reel. the pinion gear is wrong, and the driveshaft is too short. You cannot put a 3-stack drag set on an older brake plate. The post is too short, especially if your driveshaft has two pins under it to catch parts to put the reel back to reel, from cast.

If you try, the sideplate will impede rotation of the main gear and you have nothing.  If you can locate a present day brake plate, and present day driveshaft, then you have a good chance to do the mods.  
But you may need to change the spool to ultracast as well. Then you will axle issues, and minimal cast control.

You cannot put an IAR bearing in the side plate of an older 4-5-6 reel. You can only do this if the boss inside the plate is ~not~ a fully round circle, but has 2 round-square sides on it. From around year 99.

Anyway this is all based on lack of info...things could change once you indicate which 65 you have, from the numbers on the frame.

[Prefessa]

Hi Ken

The reel is an old 6500 C from the time where they put 2 ball bearings in the spool and the main gear had 2 drag washers. The reel foot says 89-0 89-90.

This winter I purchased a vintage 4500 CS and  a Post Hurricane Sandy 5500C3 that was broken.

I salvaged the brake plate from the wreck to replace the brake plate in the 4500 CS which was corroded.

I took the frame and spool from the wreck and slapped on the side plates from the 6500 C to make a 5500 C with a clicker I can use for carp angling. I had a surplus of 6500 reels and that was my oldest one.

I still have the main pinion, gear sleeve ,and drag sleeve from the wreck as well as a side plate with a blown IAR bearing . I am thinking that if I install a new IAR bearing I can swap out the plate gear sleeve gears and drag sleeve, star drag to get a 5500 reel with IAR and a clicker .

I was going to purchase a new brake plate for the 4500 but the cost is prohibitive unless parts are much cheaper directly from pure fishing than other vendors. The cost of this part is not much less than I payed for the vintage 4500CS in the first place.

[Ken_D]

Hi, thanks for the particulars. Let's see what can be done. Whereas it's 11.30 out this way, I'll hit it in the morning. One thing's for sure, you will be fishing with it, one way or another.
Come one come all with ideas for this rat-reel. (with respect, based on the car guy's rat rods)
None of us knows as much as all of us.

[Ken_D]

Morning. This looks like it may be you. You have the ultracast spool. Yes? Unless someone's switched frames over time. This unit can go to a C3, but only the ball bearing type as seen below.

If you look inside your crank sideplate, you'll note that the crank boss is def. round, not partitally. Is this you.
http://www.nutterrodandreel.com/pdf/Abu%20Garcia/1989-90/6500c%20%2089-0.PDF

Here's the C3 version.  
http://www.nutterrodandreel.com/pdf/Abu%20Garcia/1991-92/6500c3%2089-1.PDF

Their brake plates are the same. At this point, you need to find from your stock, or borrow a present day plate, or one from the 90's. Note the new style of pinion holder here.

http://www.nutterrodandreel.com/pdf/Abu%20Garcia/1991-92/6500c3%209902.PDF

You need to locate a brake plate whose driveshaft post is this tall, and ensure yours is the same height.

Now we move to straight IAR.  Note that the gearsets and the axle shafts are different part nos.
http://www.nutterrodandreel.com/pdf/Abu%20Garcia/1995/6500c3%209907.pdf No little post for the mechanical ratchet on board.

Take a moment to run through these drawings, so you get the drift of what Abu was doing back then.

[Prefessa]

Ken:

Thanks Much....looks like its a go based on schematics. If I press a new IAR bearing into the 5500 (post Sandy) Plate, and re-use the gear sleeve, Drag Sleeve,  main and pinion I will have what I want. You gotta love Franken-Reels!! Looks like they do use the dog and IAR together. The ratchet does double duty in the old reels...it mans the silent dog and it flips the clutch.

Keep you posted...

Thanks again!

[Ken_D]

Sounds good: Frankenreels are lots of fun, especially if they save green stamps along the way.
A reminder to install the IAR brg for RH retrieve...if you put in the other way, it would be for LH retrieve.
Then you would need to take it out and reverse it.

[Prefessa]

Ken: You were correct...the gear sleeve for the old reel is shorter. So now the challenge is.....

Can the drag plate at the bottom of the gear sleeve be removed and replaced to accept the newer style main gear??

[Ken_D]

Ken: You were correct...the gear sleeve for the old reel is shorter. So now the challenge is.....

Can the drag plate at the bottom of the gear sleeve be removed and replaced to accept the newer style main gear??

Hello. I think you mean remove the chromed part of the driveshaft, which makes the space for the leaves of the ratchet to fit, and accepting the bottom drag washer of the old 2-washer main gear?  

How many brake plates do you have?  Do you have a complete fishable today style reel in your collection?
with IAR? This goes to making absolutely sure that the posts that hold the driveshaft are the same height, if you are still using the older brake plate. Do NOT throw away that little plastic collar on the old pinion gear !!! You will need to use it on the new pinion, if you are finding the older brake plate acceptable.

[Prefessa]

OK...So it Appears the drag plate is ether interference fitted or peened so it cannot be removed. The modern break plate washershe dragrade te went onto my 4500 CS, so what I did was to upgrade the drag washers in the old style gear, and I took the main metal drag washer and refinished and lapped to a mirror polish. At that point I am getting more pounds of drag and the smoothest system the reel ever had.
This old synchro that donated the parts is essentially new...I got it years ago when a friend of mine ditched it for calcuttas. He was a good friend who always like to fly first class and his tackle went thorough continuos and frequent upgrade and esentially brand new second tier tackle garaged saled to friends at huge discounts.

Not quite sure where the washers came from. I know bought them in WI on business years ago. They were supposed to be for the old 89 series reels but they were very thick. The old washers were leather and very thin. Installed them with shimano drag grease and with the newly polished plate the performance is excellent. wondering if they were washers intended for the first gen of low profile abus. I know smooth drag makes carbontex washers for these reels.

So all that remains is to fix the IAR bearing in the 5500 plate and swap it out for the synchro plate.

[Ken_D]

Looks like you are on the home stretch. Good fixing and fishing. Where does the syncro fit into the dialogue?
Today's the first mention of that deal... You do have its driveshaft, right? A syncro driveshaft is taller than a today driveshaft. You might have handle issues as well.

[Prefessa]

Hi ken: Disregard the synchro...what I mean is a Circa 1988-89 6500C where the ball bearings went into the spool...i think that that was the first year they took them off the bearing caps...result better free spool lower cost. Those reels were pretty cheap, and they were still good reels

[Ken_D]

Hi ken: Disregard the synchro...what I mean is a Circa 1988-89 6500C where the ball bearings went into the spool...i think that that was the first year they took them off the bearing caps...result better free spool lower cost. Those reels were pretty cheap, and they were still good reels

OK...nomenclature faux pas... no worries. but: If you get a chance, get yourself a couple. Nice reels.
Syncros are cool in 5-6 size, and a real dog as the resurrected 7000i reel, compared to the Swedish 7 syncro.
7i's are a real pos, as at last year. Maybe they fixed them now.

[Prefessa]

So what makes em a Synchro...what cool feature does it bring to the table?? I am already addicted to Ambassadeurs as it is!

[Ken_D]

So what makes em a Synchro...what cool feature does it bring to the table?? I am already addicted to Ambassadeurs as it is!

Syncros are set up to drop about half the preset drag as fast as you can turn the handle backwards about 1/2 turn. This when a fish is at your feet, and runs suddenly. With the drag set for the scrap, this setting can be too strong in close, and your fish can break off... line pop, hook tear, yada.  As soon as you forward crank again, the drag reverts back to the preset. As long as the handle is in the backwards position, the drag is reduced.

If you are fishing alone this is very handy. If you are fishing with company, with a regular reel, you can back the star off for that sudden run, as the other rodster gets the gaff or net ready. But then the drag is less, until you re-tighten the star.