Drag Settings and Bellville Configurations

[David Hall]

You have to give me + or - 3 lbs but I think I can set any drag anywhere 1-25 lbs by hand and I got a 30 year old bottle of scotch I will wager! 

[Alto Mare]

You have to give me + or - 3 lbs but I think I can set any drag anywhere 1-25 lbs by hand and I got a 30 year old bottle of scotch I will wager! 

I'm with you pal, yes it can very much be done by feel, 3lbs either way is a good number.
Not everyone is the same though, as you, I know I could get close to it.
Sal

[Reel 224]

Simple way is to check your pulled estimate from time to time to make sure you are rite, that way you would be sure of the feel. I have in the past did the same when adjusting my drag, but I know if I measure 25# of drag on a scale it is damned hard to pull by hand without cutting yourself.

Joe

[Normslanding]

In testing line I found some things that pertain to this. My testing was hollow Spectra in as real a setting as I could produce.
On a small lever drag reel (wet drag) loaded with 40 lb. hollow. A piece of 20 lb. hollow was spliced on the end, and a loop was made in the end of the 20, and a hook was put on the loop. I happen to live near a chain link fence that is over way over 300 yds. long. So the drag was set at 40% of 20 = 8 lbs, and the hook was attached to the fence, and away I went at a fairly fast pace. Pulling the length of the fence and more about 400 yds.
provided a surprise in the fact the 20 lb. did not break. And most of the line was off the reel.
So now my drags are set then pushing past strike and tested until the spot where 50% of the stated line strength is found. At that spot a make is placed on the reel. Many guys that fish big fish do not exceed the 50%.
Another thing that occurs with reels of different sizes is the fact that more drag surface area equating to more friction especially as the spool starts to move. As many here on this site were instrumental in greasing drags to reduce start up resistance, and the advancement in reel technology, has produced reels that will effectively fish heavier drag settings. So is 25 lbs. the same on different reels, and dose it effect your fishing, MAYBE..... but is it enough to matter, probably not. If reels now can have a fish empty most of line without breakage, and you can use 50% of the stated line strength in limited situations I would not worry about it.

[mike1010]

I for one would be very interested to know that if I set my drag at 14 lbs. on my new Cortez plated 501; what the actual drag will be with 60% of the line played out...just out of curiosity.

Mike, I think the difference in drag should be roughly proportional to the change in effective spool radius.  Say when the spool is full, the distance from the spindle to the top of the line is one inch, and the drag is set at 10 lbs.  Look at that one inch radius as a lever one inch long applied to rotating the spool.  If you pull off enough line so that the top is now 3/4 inch from the spindle, the difference in drag should be about 10 * 1/4 = 2.5 lbs, giving an effective drag of 12.5 lbs.  Actual results can differ from predictions because the reel is a physical thing with quirks, not a mathematical model, but Rube Goldberg experiments in my basement support the basic idea.

Mike

[Alto Mare]

I for one would be very interested to know that if I set my drag at 14 lbs. on my new Cortez plated 501; what the actual drag will be with 60% of the line played out...just out of curiosity.

Mike, I think the difference in drag should be roughly proportional to the change in effective spool radius.  Say when the spool is full, the distance from the spindle to the top of the line is one inch, and the drag is set at 10 lbs.  Look at that one inch radius as a lever one inch long applied to rotating the spool.  If you pull off enough line so that the top is now 3/4 inch from the spindle, the difference in drag should be about 10 * 1/4 = 2.5 lbs, giving an effective drag of 12.5 lbs.  Actual results can differ from predictions because the reel is a physical thing with quirks, not a mathematical model, but Rube Goldberg experiments in my basement support the basic idea.

Mike

You are correct Mike, but now you've opened up a can of worms

In regards to being able to pull 25lbs by hands:

So is 25 lbs. the same on different reels, and dose it effect your fishing, MAYBE..... but is it enough to matter, probably not. If reels now can have a fish empty most of line without breakage, and you can use 50% of the stated line strength in limited situations I would not worry about it.

I believe it's the same numbers on different reels, but if you take smoothness into account, that's another story.
I just tested myself again with pulling 25lbs by hands, not easy, but doable.
I attached the scale to a post and held the reel in my hands, gradually adjusted the star by pulling it up to 25lbs. I have gone way higher doing it this way, but that's for something else.
I repeated the same by mounting the reel on my rod without touching the star and gave it a nice bend.
I checked the scale and it was exactly the same 25lbs.
I then pulled the line using my hand, again, keeping the star at the same setting. It took a little force but I was able to pull the line with no issues.
I used a 9/0 with upgraded drags, that reel is as smooth as butter at 25lbs, I'm sure a stock 9/0 would have given me a harder time.
This is one of the  reason we increase drags on these.
By the way, I wouldn't attempt pulling braid at 25lbs.

Sal

[David Hall]

Sal its okay to use a stick! wrap the line around it and set the drag, that same 25 wont be so bad, its still adjusted by hand just not a bloody one!

[Ron Jones]

I know we are getting more and more technical, but to be honest, before I started hanging around here, I fished for a couple decades and never even considered that the drag had a "weight." If you have two 4/0s and one is spooled with 30 and one is spooled with 40 the 30 needs less drag. What is that less drag? It's what it is. I guess if you are just starting out and am looking to be as able as an individual that has been fishing for a while you want to know. But in all honesty, let a fish break off because your drag is to tight, then let one run on you because it is to loose, then switch lines and realize that everything is different. After considerable time and effort, you'll figure it out.
Ron

[TheReelShop]

thanks for all the input guys. I appreciate this. Hopefully this can be used for future reference. I changed the thread title to be easier to search and get access to.

[Jaime]

I agree with day one.  Living in the East Cape of BCS Mexico the only fishing I do is off shore.  All my reels are lever drags with a few exceptions.  When I set the drag on the lever drag reels I mount the reel on the rod, run the line through the guides and use a good (accurate) spring scale with a tattle tale.  Then the line is anchored at floor level and I load the rod until the drag slip's.  The drag is noted, not changing a thing I then
point the rod directly at the anchor and back up until the drag slip's.  The number is always the same.
However the strain on me is almost nothing as compared to the loaded rod way.  The difference is so dramatic
that I had a friend of mine load up a rod with the reel set at 15# and pull until the drag slipped.  We checked the scale and it was 15#.  I then had him point the rod at the anchor point and back up.  I asked him what he thought the drag was.  He said just about nothing, maybe 5#.  Took a look at the tattle tale 15#.  He could not believe it.

He now fights big fish the way I do.  When the fish is running, point the rod at the fish and relax.  Once the drag is slipping you can not put any more pressure on the fish.  But you can sure put more on your self.
Try it sometime.   Jaime

[sdlehr]

Once the drag is slipping you can not put any more pressure on the fish.  But you can sure put more on your self.
Try it sometime.   Jaime

Jaime, you're going to break more lines that way. The rod performs an important function in cushioning the tension on the line so as to minimize sudden changes in tension; changes that can result in line breakage! If you're going to do this, better make sure you drag is as smooth as silk!

Sid

[Normslanding]

The day I saw my first Avet was the day my transition (mostly) to lever drag reels started. The change to wet drags was the other altering factor in my fishing over the last 12 or so years. These two factors have altered how drags are set, and how I fish today. The drags are set with a scale, and tested pulling line directly off the reel without a bend in the rod. The drag pressure used is a minimum of 30%, and usually higher. The last time a fish broke my string was on a dry drag Avet LX long ago. Pointing the rod at a fish while line is going off the reel is the norm, especially on fish that appear to be over 20 lbs. On big fish like YFT, Marlin, etc. it is automatic for me. When a fish is circling the rod is used more bent. To date fish have not been lost to broken line, pulled or broken hooks. A wise fisherman friend said " pour the coals to them early, if you loose one early it's better than getting chewed off after a hour and a half ". Years ago I would have agreed with using the rod to cushion the impact with little stretch in Spectra. Back in the 50's mono, and a parabolic rod made up for mistakes a young buy (me) would make. Today the modern reels, and rods have change the game.

[TomT]

As David mentioned, I have NEVER seen anyone on a boat set their drags with a scale(I am 75 yrs old).  In fact I have seen very few fishermen on any kind of party boat with their own scale.  In all fairness the longest fishing trip I have been in on is 1 1/2 day trip--so no multi-day trips.  I have seen very few fish lost by having too little drag, because you can usually increase the drag enough to correct the situation.  Too much drag for a given situation can result in pulled hooks and broken lines--just my opinion.    I have seen lots of deckhands adjust or re-adjust drags, but Never with a scale--just by pulling off line.  None of this makes my opinion more correct.  But I believe if I ever wanted to fish with 15#'s drag--after I set the drag with the scales 2 or 3 times and then checked how hard it was to pull 15#'s of drag by hand or cheating with a dowel--that I could set the drag by hand within 12 to 18 lbs.  Just my opinion.. But again, on any fishing boat, I have never seen a scale used to do anything but weigh the fish.  
TomT

[day0ne]

As David mentioned, I have NEVER seen anyone on a boat set their drags with a scale(I am 75 yrs old).  In fact I have seen very few fishermen on any kind of party boat with their own scale.  In all fairness the longest fishing trip I have been in on is 1 1/2 day trip--so no multi-day trips.  I have seen very few fish lost by having too little drag, because you can usually increase the drag enough to correct the situation.  Too much drag for a given situation can result in pulled hooks and broken lines--just my opinion.    I have seen lots of deckhands adjust or re-adjust drags, but Never with a scale--just by pulling off line.  None of this makes my opinion more correct.  But I believe if I ever wanted to fish with 15#'s drag--after I set the drag with the scales 2 or 3 times and then checked how hard it was to pull 15#'s of drag by hand or cheating with a dowel--that I could set the drag by hand within 12 to 18 lbs.  Just my opinion.. But again, on any fishing boat, I have never seen a scale used to do anything but weigh the fish.  
TomT

You need to go on a Gulf of Mexico tuna trip with regulars. Lots of scales used to set the drags on the trip out. Pretty common. I carry two scales when ever I fish. A lot of people set the drags with scales before the trip also. If a deckhand messes with my drag while I have a fish on, he stands a good chance of pulling back a nub instead of a finger.