I lapped my stainless gears

[Joel.B]

I dunno if I did good or not- but these things are pretty danged quiet and smooth now. These stainless 4:1 gears came on a 113h I bought- they looked new but were not near as smooth as brass gears- were noisy, chattery-  unpleasant to the feel.

Took reel apart- removed all the grease- installed gears on old sleeve and arbor. I took some 600gr lapping compound I use for guns and applied it carefully only to teeth of gears. Put it all together on old frame with an old heavy metal spool for good resistance.  I watched football- thumbed the spool a bit and cranked away. Then cleaned it all off and did it again with 800grit- 1000grit, and finally with McGuires metal polish paste. Watched two NFL games while doing this.   Took a dremel with polishing head and rouge, polishe dthe inner/outer surfaces and outer edge of gears. Got it all cleaned, greased and back together in narrow frame with aluminum spool- extremely quiet and smooth now. Smoother than the brass gears. Was a ton of work.  I plan on using this reel for fishing iron all day- I really needed it to be smooth.

I hope I did not hurt anything. For guns- sometimes if a surface gets too polished it can be bad- won't hold oil/grease.  I am going to fish it and pay close attention to the feel and sound, tear it back down and inspect for any signs of wear due to lack of lube.

[redsetta]

Sounds good Joel - will look forward to your review in due course.
Cheers, Justin

[Robert Janssen]

This is not gear lapping.

Please do not do this.


.

[Dominick]

This is not gear lapping.

Please do not do this.

Robert:  Please explain.  Dominick

[redsetta]

x2 - sounded like a good result (re: smoothness), but it's not something I've ever done.

[Joel.B]

Too late for me- can you expound on your comment though?

I understand the "lapping" is a term used loosely-  however I am curious as to what you think could be wrong here?

Other than the reel being very smooth and quiet now- the grease seems to be sticking pretty good- though I may want something a bit stiffer. I ran the reel for an hour last night and then took it down again- looks pretty good.


If you have experience to the contrary i'd like to hear it.

[Bryan Young]

Joel, many guys have done this without any issues as long as we are talking about microns of material being polished away.  Not to worry.  I think it may be a difference in terms.

[Joel.B]

I think microns is about right.  I don't really know what you could harm doing this unless you put too much compound on, were using a good sleeve/post and the tolerances were opened up somehow.   

[Robert Janssen]

Explain? Explain how?

Gear manufacture is a very exact process, and gear lapping even more so. What can I say?  Look it up. Microns indeed.

Adding grinding paste to gears in mesh does nothing but accelerate wear, eroding the forward facing flank of the driving gears teeth against the opposing flank of the driven, eventually undermining primarily the dedendum of the one and addendum of the other, and the involute tooth profile becomes compromised. It most definitely does not improve the gear.

Think about it on a larger scale: Want a reel to become smooth? Fill it with sand and crank it 'round a million times. Or, my car was running a bit rough. So I poured sand into the oil tank and drove a hundred laps around the racetrack. Sound good?

Having said all that, If your goal is to have smooth feeling gears, I'm sure it works very nicely. In fact, I'll even agree. In that case, all is well. Enjoy.

But to consider it an even remotely correct or proper gear processing method would certainly be erroneous.


.

[Ron Jones]

Now, let's put this into a little perspective.

I have watched a few extremely well trained machinists do amazing things with vital gears on submarines. Lots of lay out die, unbelievably specialized tools, work practices that are beyond the scope of most peoples understanding. In that instance, all of Mr. Jannsen's statements are undoubtedly correct. However, we are talking about a fishing reel, not a nuclear powered vessel. If the reels systems fail, you don't get the fish, maybe you get a knuckle scarred up if you really blow it. In the other instance, well I'd rather not think about it to be honest.

People have been advocating the polishing of geared surfaces in fishing reels by the use of a low viscocity abrasive being ran through the gear train under resistance for far longer than I or most others on this board have been alive. It works, and if you perform the evolution in the manner described by Mr. B it undoubtedly works well.

I am not insinuating that Mr. Janssen's data is incorect. I can only assume that he has a higher level of education and experience in the field in question. I just think maybe we've gone a bit to far on this one.

By the way, I'm glad your happy with your reel Joel.

Ron

[Joel.B]

Now, let's put this into a little perspective.

I have watched a few extremely well trained machinists do amazing things with vital gears on submarines. Lots of lay out die, unbelievably specialized tools, work practices that are beyond the scope of most peoples understanding. In that instance, all of Mr. Jannsen's statements are undoubtedly correct. However, we are talking about a fishing reel, not a nuclear powered vessel. If the reels systems fail, you don't get the fish, maybe you get a knuckle scarred up if you really blow it. In the other instance, well I'd rather not think about it to be honest.

People have been advocating the polishing of geared surfaces in fishing reels by the use of a low viscocity abrasive being ran through the gear train under resistance for far longer than I or most others on this board have been alive. It works, and if you perform the evolution in the manner described by Mr. B it undoubtedly works well.

I am not insinuating that Mr. Janssen's data is incorect. I can only assume that he has a higher level of education and experience in the field in question. I just think maybe we've gone a bit to far on this one.

By the way, I'm glad your happy with your reel Joel.

Ron

Thanks Ron

I am going to go fish my gears out of the garbage now- Robert had me scared there for a second.....

[redsetta]

Cheers all.
It's all great information and adding to our collective wisdom.
We're fortunate to have such a breadth of expertise, knowledge and good, old-fashioned trial and error at our disposal.
Much appreciated, Justin

[Alto Mare]

Informative topic gentlemen, very much appreciated here as well,
Thanks! Sal

[saltydog]

I always try to improve my reels and there gears,and the tolerance on some of the reels produced today could use a little help.There is nothing wrong with what he did to the gears lord I've used super fine grit automotive sandpaper on some of mine with no detrimental effects but I can also see the overzealous getting too inthused and removing to much material.It always pays to be careful butonly costs money to experiment.Keep the ideas and opinions coming,they all help.
William

[Makule]

Yes, technically, Robert is correct.

Then, when he said,

If your goal is to have smooth feeling gears, I'm sure it works very nicely. In fact, I'll even agree. In that case, all is well.

, he's also correct.

Just because the word, "lapping" was used in the vernacular sense doesn't take away from the intent and value of what we all understood was meant, even though there may be a more "technically appropriate" phrase for what was done (e.g., wear polishing).  I'm sure we're all more interested in the practical and performance related aspects of reel modification/repair than on semantics or appropriate use of words, and Robert did acknowledge that.

Ahem.  Although one might think about getting a smooth feeling when cranking to be primarily something related only to self-satisfaction, there is also a lot to be said about it in terms of the more efficient transfer of energy.  For example, a reel that has no lube in the gears, bearings/bushings would likely not feel "smooth" and it would be also "harder" to crank.  It's harder to crank because of the increased friction between parts, and harder to crank also means more effort by the angler with possibly less enjoyment and/or opportunity to catch the fish.  Making things more efficient, including the increase of cranking efficiency also helps increase enjoyment and ability to catch fish.  While we may not measure this change objectively, a lot of what we do is purely subjective and increasing smoothness cannot help but also increase our own satisfaction/pleasure in our pursuit, as well as our overall effectiveness/efficiency.