Hotrodding the Abu 6500 Big Game

[Prefessa]

This is my beach casting reel for the NJ shore. Years ago I added a new shroud and ball bearing to make it a C4

Now thanks to this board I found that all I need is a new BB Worm gear and I have a C5, then add a BB Idler Gear...I have a full C6...

Q1  Will the reel now be too fast for a non magnetic braking system??

Q2 Will the 6 pin Centrifugal break fit this reel?? Or will other parts need to be replaced such as gearing....

[Ken_D]

Hi. What's the frame number on the foot? Hard to suggest options blind. 

[Prefessa]

Its a Black 6500 CL Big Game...no longer made...Reel Foot 07-00

[Ken_D]

This is my beach casting reel for the NJ shore. Years ago I added a new shroud and ball bearing to make it a C4

Now thanks to this board I found that all I need is a new BB Worm gear and I have a C5, then add a BB Idler Gear...I have a full C6...

Q1  Will the reel now be too fast for a non magnetic braking system?? 

Q2 Will the 6 pin Centrifugal break fit this reel?? Or will other parts need to be replaced such as gearing....

http://www.abugarcia.com/sites/default/files/schematics/6500CL%200700.pdf

The 6 pack will fit. Do not install upside down.

Q1 depends on too many variables: throwing 1/4 ounce with all your might, or lobbing 8 ounces out, puts
different physics on the reel.  Would you agree that spool speed after bearings and reel parts, is normally affected by 3 things... friction from the flyweights, how tight the cast cap is, and how hard you make the cast, for the weight of the bait or lure. The answer will be forcoming as you work with the reel.

[Prefessa]

Mornin Ken:

There is a debate as to whether you need to change the pinion to a 4 slot to get the 6 pin brake to work. Some say no and some say yes since the 4 slot pinion is a tad shorter.

What I do like about the 6 pin brake is it gives you a choice between...2, 3, 4 or 6 brake blocks.

The current little brake blocks do very little braking. Its friction that does the bulk. So now the reel is a C4 and is a tad faster.....as a C6 I have seen on YOU TUBE how a guy moved the level wind with his fingers and kept the spool spinning.

On the Mag series the spool spins for ~3 minutes without the magnets engaged. It is a cheap and easy part to swap in and out.


Any thoughts on the pinon?? Of course whan you change the pinion....you need to change the main...then it starts to get pricey.

Aledegedly the new gears are stronger as there a new bronze alloy??

[Ken_D]

Good day. I re-geared several reels for a musky angler, moving down to the 3.8-1 winch set, from the 6.3-1 high speed. Muskies are a decent size, therefore quite capable of testing gears. Abu sales section, in their infinite wisdom, made the winch set go away. Lack of demand.

His high ratio pinions were the 4-cut. The replacement gearsets were 2-cut pinions, placed in the 6-pack brake system. This guy was type A with the added bonus of being anal... you may know the type at your work, or in your circle of friends. If any rodster would whine, after spending the money and not getting good performance, it would be this personality (or lack of). Not a peep after several years now.

Going the other way, from a 4-cut 6 pack reverting to the dual brake system is rather dumb... as the 6-pack can be adjusted from 0-6.

On metallurgy: Standard Swedish gearsets last on a ratio basis. A rodster fishing 1 pound trout will get 20 years on his gears, if he lubes them.  A fellow using a 6500 C3 on 45 pound spring salmon in a river fishery can expect to get 3-5 years on his gearset. Or less. If the sport is a gung-ho fisher, winching instead of pumping, the gearset might last only one season, if he catches triple digits a season.
(Up here, in some systems, it's possible to hook and land 20+ salmon between 20 and 40 pounds, a day)

Not enough new ones out there (up here) to gauge the wear patterns. You would need to contact a warranty center closeby, in your fishery, or a repair shop with high volume who has seen lots of the new stuff, and pose that question RE wear.  

[Prefessa]

Hey Ken:

What would be the ramifications if I needed to get a 4 slot pinion and decided to forgo changing the Main Gear?? The reel has very low mileage...Its my clam chucking off the NJ beaches reel. Its spends alot of time sitting in a sand spike.

From a perusal of the net it seems that sometimes the 2 slot works and sometimes it doesnt. I do have the advantage of moving the spool sl to the left since the BG has 2 bearing caps. The 4 slot is i think 70/1000's shorter.

[Ken_D]

Hey Ken:

What would be the ramifications if I needed to get a 4 slot pinion and decided to forgo changing the Main Gear?? The reel has very low mileage...Its my clam chucking off the NJ beaches reel. Its spends alot of time sitting in a sand spike.

From a perusal of the net it seems that sometimes the 2 slot works and sometimes it doesnt. I do have the advantage of moving the spool sl to the left since the BG has 2 bearing caps. The 4 slot is i think 70/1000's shorter.

Hello. What is your clutch in this reel... a 2 brake or a 4 brake. Why would you want to put a 4 slot into a reel made for a 2 brake system, knowing that the pinions are different, and could fail?  There's a 3 letter word for that ... and it ain't complimentary. Why not add another 4.68 to the bill, and buy a 6-brake clutch, along with the 4-slot pinion. 

Then there would be zero issues. A new pinion with an old gear may not be overly smooth. The teeth on both may or may not come together, And never quiet down, vibrating and grinding all the way till you change again to a paired set.

[Prefessa]

Ken its a 2 brake...just like the reel you repaired for your Muskie Fisherman.

The rationale is this...I want to add a ball bearing work ang BB Idler...at that point the reel will be so fast that I may need another brake block so I want to go to the 6 brake clutch.

So the real question is If I need to get a Pinion or Not....If Yes...then I also Need a new Main to go with it...Yes??

There are folks on Flea-Bay selling the 6 brake clutch on its own...and there are others selling a clutch/4 slot pinion as a set...

No One is selling a Clutch/New Gearset.

Problem with hotrodding...is deciding when to say when...and with what Pure Fishing gets for S&H...I want to make one BIG GIANT parts order.

[Ken_D]

OK...I'd call pure fishing and see if they still make a discount after a determined sum is reached. Then I would  order to that number....pawls, drag washers, yada.  It used to be 50.00 to qualify, and if you spent more, then the discount deepened.  

Remember: on the muskie reel, I went the other way, from a 4 cut pinion down to a 2 cut leaving the 6-puck brake in place..so the sport was fine. (too bad Abu dropped the low ratio.)

Should you not want to buy a 14.00 main, then you can see if the newer used pinion you are looking at, will stay quiet with your present gear.
Why not do the eeb,eh? first, then work on your Abu order, should it be growly and vibratory.

You can buy the idler gear without the bb, at Abu.  VXB stocks the idler gear bearings for less than Abu. I bought 10 for about 20.00
Oh yeah: it's assumed that you are not intermingling gear ratios...that ratios for main and pinion will be the same as.

[Prefessa]

Ken D:

Throughout these threads you mention 5 dollar pinions and 14 dollar Main Gears and 7 dollar IAR bearings...Is that Eeee-Bay prices...I was under the belief that a pinion main set was ~35 USD Plus?

[Ken_D]

Ken D:

Throughout these threads you mention 5 dollar pinions and 14 dollar Main Gears and 7 dollar IAR bearings...Is that Eeee-Bay prices...I was under the belief that a pinion main set was ~35 USD Plus?

Hi. A 21200 main (regular 4-5-6, with 3 internal drag washers) P/Fsg price is 13.75. Dealers will be close.  4 slot pinions would be about 11.00** (new)
I believe they are 1116904 (no schematic open at present, main gear number has been committed to memory.) What's that: 26.00 USD, and s/h?
And the 2-slot pinion (20848 I believe), is 6.60 from PF, so a set goes down by 5.00, to 21.00 plus s/h.

The IAR brg (as mentioned quite often) is not sold separately for the 4-5-6 round reels. It's an outside buy from wherever. I get mine for 10.00 CAD
9.50'ish USD, plus s/h from that (in)famous company that everybody loves to hate: Mike's Reel.  Nothing at Motion Industries ??

There are several 4-5-6 gearsets for less, (2-slot pinion) that fit, but by the time you modify them, and/or buy a different axle, it's a small less, after price, and life force. Open a 55 or 65 drawing from about 1999-02, somewhere back then, note transmission numbers, and axle numbers. I think it was 99-05 or so, when they changed to the common set, till into the 2000's, before the 4-slot pinion.  And for bed time reading, rummage about in the
Royal/Royal Express collections.

The system for Abu ease is to compare commonalities, and note anomalies.  Ergo: if the spools are the same part, then the frames will swap, regardless of number. If the driveshafts are the same, then the gears may swap, etc. etc. etc.  

**I know I've mentioned 14.00 mains, but where did I indicate a 5.00 new pinion?  If I did, it's a typo for the 4 slot, and close to a 2 slot.