"ON THE INSIDE" Shimano Spheros 12000FA

[Dawdy]

Since i didnt find any spheros posts in the forum i decided to take some picture this time
with the pursue to solving my problem previously posted http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=10010.msg93856#msg93856

i am sorry if the pictures quality are not that good.






oscillating bushing and pawl
they look fine to me



a video  i know there should be a spacer and the bushing should be held steady but the play is obvious even before it starts coming out








main gear i cant see any noticeable damage





roller clutch assembly







Tight lines all the way from Egypt

[johndtuttle]

Thanks for that Dawdy. As we say a picture is worth a thousand words and a moving one is even better .

What I notice is the back and forth movement of the worm gear itself. Have you properly replaced the bushings on both ends? It should be suspended snuggly between it's bushings but these are often worn as well.

I agree your pawl looks great (these older Spheros were made in Japan I believe and the quality of the pawl is legend) and it's bushing is fine too.

Sorry, before I was grasping that the movement was "up and down" but this movement it more "side to side" and that means the bushings/shims have not properly seated the worm gear as it should have very little "play".


best, if that doesn't work we will keep trying!

John

[Dawdy]

@john thanks for the reply im sorry i cropped out the wrong part of the video i wasnt holding the top bushing at the beginning
you ll notice the worm shaft will be stable after i hold the top bushing here is the full video

[johndtuttle]

Looking at the video you can see that there is consistent movement of the worm gear with the main shaft back and forth as observed previously. The worm gear (7596 worm shaft) should not have movement back and forth at all. In the end to the right where it goes into the worm shaft spacer (2409) and worm bushing (5832) the gap appearing there should not be. This spacer and bushing are under the retainer. Also, the worm shaft retainer (7604) does not form a 90 degree angle with the worm shaft but this may be by design but it doesn't seem to be doing the work it should.

The play (movement) at the very end of the cycle is normal as the pawl needs some room to gather itself and flip over before heading back the other way. To isolate this from the movement of the worm shaft advance the gear until the pawl is in the middle of the worm shaft. Then it should be snug and any movement of the worm shaft will only be due to the improper condition/position of it's bushings and retainer.

If you do it with the pawl about midway and the main shaft moves but the worm shaft does not then it is the pawl assembly. There will be some very small movement but there should not be much.

The reason that I originally suspected the pawl or it's bushing is that as it forms a linkage between the main shaft (7589) it is under a lot of stress when the reel is under load. It should not be able to move the worm shaft back and forth very much if at all if the worm shaft is properly installed.

This is also why Shimano in later models of their reels moved the worm shaft retainers to the back of the reel so that they could be better supported. The screw that keeps it in place (540) may need some loctite as well to keep it in proper position depending on the design.


ps. OK FORGET ALL THAT...I see at the very end that you properly support the bushing and there is no play in the worm shaft. The tiny amount of movement at the very end is within normal limits. It's just the space required for the pawl to flip around and head the other direction. It's possible that the worm shaft is a tiny bit worn increasing the play but this should not be causing you any trouble.

As far as feeling the gears a "little bit" this can be common after a service. If new grease is under a handle bearing etc and the fits are not precisely they way they were before then a tiny bit of friction can be noted. They also can get very tiny wear on them that is not noticeable until the gears are replaced in a different spot than they were when removed in relation to the worm oscillation cycle.

They should quiet down soon and not cause trouble if everything was replaced well greased as they appear to be.

[alantani]

thank you for a great post.  you have a pm......