Senator 113MTL and the Integrated Side Plate

[BrianBM]

Browsing around this Forum, I see only passing references to the 113MTL.   I bought one at closeout for no particular purpose, but then again, Chark could sell ice to Eskimos.  (I get excited easily.)   
No one has a bad word about the MTL. I infer that the Baja Special is a better reel, and that's about it; hence the following questions. 

The 113MTL might have been the first conventional to brag of the Integrated Side Plate design. The first iteration of Torque conventional reels may have also been ISP designs, but that buzzword seems to have disappeared from Penn ads, and isn't noted in the buzz about the new made-in-USA Senators either. Does anyone here have an opinion as to whether it really conferred any advantage in the first place?  If so, why was it dropped?  I read one opinion on another board, to the effect that it works as intended but adds substantial weight; the design has, in effect, been set aside for another day and some future generation of reels in areas where weight matters less to the customer.  (Perhaps a future generation of Senators?)  It occurred to me also that Penn may have reconsidered making a major design improvement, if it is such, available at a price point well below $200. Gentlemen, what say you?  First, do you like the 113MTL as a reel?  Second, is the ISP more than a buzzword?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the first generation Torques, like the 300 in my basement, also used the ISP. I must go back to the Torque 300 threads and see if there was any discussion of the ISP design there, but if there is, I missed it. 

If anyone here has fished the reel, I'd like to hear of user assessments. Since getting bitten by the flyrod bug, I've been preoccupied, and haven't needed any of the 3/0 and 4/0 reels in the inventory.  And would it be fair to describe the 113MTL as a modern design and the Baja Special as an older design with better components?

[basto]

With regard to the original Torques. The ISP design is to give more support to the high speed gear train, considering such a large main gear.
I cannot see much difference in the design of the side plates of other high speed reels such as a Shimano Torium, other than that the ISP is a 2 piece side plate.
I have a Torque 200 and it is a joy to use. I do not find it to be heavy at 20 oz and think that because it has the same drag figures as the 300, that it needs to be strongly built. It is lighter than my Torium 20.

[Falhooked]

Hello, I am also a fishing afficianado and  I own and use a Penn 113 MTL (love it), Penn Torque 200 (love it), Penn Baja Special (love it), and a Shimano Torium 30 (like a lot) among others.  I regularly use  the Torque 200 and Torium 30 for bottom fishing wrecks and open bottom from Moriches, NY to Montauk, NY and the Block Island cod grounds off southern New England.   Using 300 yds or more of 50 or 65lb Power Pro with a 30ft mono top shot these reels are more than adequate to the task of fishing 250ft of depth.  The Penn 113 MTL is a bit of overkill as far as capacity goes for this kind of fishing.  Unless you use mono instead of braid as some of the sharpies still do and always will, the 4/0 senator filled with 40lb pink Ande is their go to reel. 
The 113 MTL and Baja Special were reels in search of a purpose just sitting on my shelf.  So I discussed it with some of the mates on the Viking Starship out of Montauk, NY and their specifications for a Tile and deep drop fishing reel seemed to mesh with what I had on the shelf.  A sturdy braid ready reel with a capacity of 500 - 650 yds  65lb or more, 30-50ft mono top shot, and a gear ratio of about 4:1 or less or better yet a two speed.  The rod specs were simpler, handle 5lb of lead.
Since I had the requisite reels and one 7'6" Penn Power Stick (mated to the Baja).  I manned up and dropped some cash on a St. Croix Triumph TSWC70HF(7' heavy power fast action rod) for the 113MTL.  The reels received Daiwa 70lb metered braid line about 600 yds for the Baja and 650 yds for the 113MTL.  All that was needed was a trip and that was booked on the Viking, an Easter weekend 2014 trip.
  When it comes to deep drop fishing the learning curve can be steep and it was for me an experience.  A donated scope patch kept me fishing where other remedies would not.  Don't use a gimbal but do use an upper body harness.  Streamlined 2,3, 5lb leads are a must not the taped flat banks.  It was a great deal of effort to reel in.  Which brings me to the reels, both worked well under some trying circumstances.  The only thing to change is the handle, to an Alan Tani type longer arm longer ergo grip.  The fatigue from cranking up repetitively 2-5lbs of lead from 400', 600', and 900'  is incredible.
  The weight of the reels and rods to me is negligible in North Eastern bottom fishing.  The tackle needs to be up to task and if properly balanced not a minus but a reliable plus.  OH if you don't want fatigue get an electric reel.  Thanks for the topic and good luck fishing.

[BrianBM]

A very useful pair of answers!  Thank you.  Falhooked, we're semi-neighbors, I'm in Port Jeff Station, and  I do intend to try some of that deepwater angling once I retire (soon).  I have a Torque 300 with some insane amount of 65 lb. braid on it, and while the gear ratio is probably high for comfort, it will certainly do for a start.  A new handle can be fitted later.  (In truth, I don't recall what the gears on the 300 are; but it's doubtless higher than 4/1.) 

As long as boat rules permit braid, I'll stick to it - certainly for bottom fishing.  The Viking tuna trips bar braid, though the mates will wink and look away if the crowd is light and you look like you know what you're doing.
Electric reels?  I've seen them, but don't care to go there unless experience proves I have no choice.  Cold weather is hard on battery packs, too, you'd want something on the order of a truck starting battery for useful results in cold weather, I think.  I bring enough junk on board as is. 

Basto, what ARE the drag figures for the Torque 200/300 drag stack?

[basto]

32 pounds max drag for torque 200 and 300 and they both have 6.3:1 gear ratio.

[BrianBM]

Thank you.  The drag is certainly muscular enough; the gear ratio is a bit high for the deepwater bottom  Falfooked, your note on the value of an upper-body harness is noted and appreciated too. It suddenly occurred to me that I have an excellent reel for that deepwater bottom; a Wahoo Special, an old one built of a miscellany of 349 parts.  I don't know what the gear ratio is but the torque is impressive. 

What a great place this site is, I'm grateful to Alan and everyone else who stops by to chat.

[day0ne]

And would it be fair to describe the 113MTL as a modern design and the Baja Special as an older design with better components?

No, in fact comparing the two reels is a little like apples to oranges. The MTL has 3 bearings, the HN has 6. The HN has a disengaging pinion for casting, the MTL doesn't. They share the same VersaDrag washers with the 525, but list different gears. They were designed for different purposes. The HN was the same size as a Yellowtail Special used on the west coast but upgraded heavily to replace the old modified 113H that they used. It did a very good job . I'm not sure what the MTL was aimed at but it seems to be an upgraded 113H with metal frame, 4.3:1 gears and an improved drag. The HN design seems to have won out as the new US Senators are identical, except for frame color and width in two of the 3 models. BTW, I don't fish my MTL since very few were made.

[Tightlines667]

Anyone else see the recent 113MTL on EBAY?

http://m.ebay.com/itm/271959612920

It sold for $213.75 +$10(shipping)  .  I was tempted.

[handi2]

Anyone else see the recent 113MTL on EBAY?

http://m.ebay.com/itm/271959612920

It sold for $213.75 +$10(shipping)  .  I was tempted.

Man I just sold one on here for $190.00 shipped in unused condition..!!

[Alto Mare]

Anyone else see the recent 113MTL on EBAY?

http://m.ebay.com/itm/271959612920

It sold for $213.75 +$10(shipping)  .  I was tempted.

Man I just sold one on here for $190.00 shipped in unused condition..!!

Keith,  if you take sellers fees and listing fees into consideration, you did better.

[RUSTY OLD COLT]

I have not seen a 113MTL at any of the local shows on Long Island wish I could find one for my collection ,too bad penn  wont make a limited run of them again