penn 20 trolling drag bleus.

[gstours]

I kept trying to figure it out, then I slept on it, I remember that taking a break can change your thinking and may aid in finding the solution.
   Alan T. is taking the weekend off he said, as he deserves it now its somebody else,s turn to run with the ball.
The problem is that having good freespool in that lever mode moving to strike does ramp up the drag on the spool, then moving the lever to full the drag on the spool suddenly drops to freespool.  I dont know if it was always this way as its not my reel, I was to lube and clean it.  now this?
the parts in question are above and seem ok fit nicely.

This seems to me to be the widest the parts will cam apart.


another pic of the free spool (narrowest) cam placement.

this seems to me that by superimposing the parts inside the endplate that the inner cup that holds these cam parts need to rotate about 90 degrees or so, the marker in red shows what may work.

another shot,?


What do people think?  Alan said that there,s only one way it will fit, and Ive tried both of them....
I sure don't know what else to do.  Just undo the retaining screw and rotate it back more to the free spool lever position seems like then you would have freespool as before, then the cam would begin spreading apart normally, then at max drag the lever would hit the max stop just before it goes past the max spread on the cam parts.......

presently if you assemble the cam and follower in the grooves it does,nt work either way,  they only fit one way, or 180 degrees opposite which is the same way...........

   It seems logical that you shouldn't have to do this   or   if by rotating the machined part that houses the cam and follower it will even work.   

What do you people think??   Its like math it taxes my brain!!!!!

[jonnou]

I Do not know these reels and am fairly inexperienced with this
But I am thinking  that if there is too much travel of the drag lever it will rotate the cam back to freespool position
is there a stop for the full sunset position and is it correct??

I have had a similar problem with an okuma reel due to having the cam in the wrong position when assembling
lever needs to be in freespool position when preset knob is screwed on But I think you have this covered
Good luck
Jon

[Shark Hunter]

Its taxing my Brain just looking at it Gary. That's why I fish Big Senators. No taxing of the Brain, Simple Construction, No Cams, Easy to work on, and Tough.
I'm sure you will figure it out.

[Tightlines667]

GS,
Looks to me like you've got it right there.  I might suggest ensuring that the cam assembly is working properly before dropping it in the side plate.  Assemble it like you've got it there in the third and forth pics and while holding the cam follower in one hand, rotate the lever (keeping pressure against the cam w/it), and ensure that as you rotate it from freespool to full you should see the cam follower pins ride up the ramped portion of the cam itself, and create a gap with the maximum corresponding to the max travel on the lever.  This should be relatively smooth process.  Your making sure there are no burrs, groves or marring impeding movement.  Then drop the assembly into the side plate, hold pressure against the pinion bearing w/one hand, and the lever with the other and try testing it.  Again ensure the assembly is together, and that the cam follower pins are aligned with the freespool indent in the cam (very little to no gap), like picture 4, and that the freespool lever when attached lines up perfectly with where it should be in freespool (the freespool indicator button is depressed).  If it is slightly off then pull the assembly, rotate it 180 deg, drop it in and test again.  Because there is more then 90 deg travel available in the lever, the cam assembly can be in there 2 different ways.  It's always good to test this quickly before continuing to assemble the right side plate.  So the cam follower pins need to be seated properly in the cam follower (so the bearing fits completly with the pocket, and the pins need to be recessed into the freespool pockets in the cam...and after dropping the assembly into the plate, the freespool lever should fit in align perfectly with the freespool position..if not rotate it 180 deg and it will. 

If there is marring/burring on any of these parts, where they don't rotate smoothly (not sloppy), debur with fin grit sandpaper, steel wool, brass brush, Dremel or similar.  Play with it and you'll get it.

Hope that helps.

[Robert Janssen]

Quote from an older post with similar subject:

...untill the lever is just in front of the 'free' button, maybe 1/4". At this moment, the lever 'jumps' the last bit and lands on top of the 'free' button. There is no way to stop this. Also, the lever will not go back past this position even though it looks as though there is room for it to do so.

Does anyone know why this happens and how to fix it? Thanks.

Hello, Chris.
Actually, yes-- I've had one do the same. It is an error from the factory. Don't know how or why it happens. On the inside of the right side plate, there is a cup containing a ball bearing, cam and some other stuff. A small screw in a notch on the perifery of this cup locks it non-rotatably in place.

This notch is in the wrong place. Undo the screw, turn the cup just a few degrees clockwise, and clamp it down with the screw. Try the lever. You'll find everything works just fine.

Thing is, it won't stay that way until you make a new notch or register in the cup to keep it there. You'll figure it out.

Not neccesarily saying that this is the problem with your reel, but i think it would be worth a look.

[Big Tim]

Its taxing my Brain just looking at it Gary. That's why I fish Big Senators. No taxing of the Brain, Simple Construction, No Cams, Easy to work on, and Tough.
I'm sure you will figure it out.

I like easy to D  Luckily there are some extremely smart people on this site and I'm sure this problem will be resolved.

[handi2]

The way you have the parts assembled is correct. Just make sure when you set them in place the cam and it's related parts are in the tightest closed position as shown in one of your pictures.

When you turn the side plate over and install the free spool lever keep a finger pushed on the pinion bearing on the inside of the side plate. If it still jumps into free spool at the higher drag settings the parts are worn and need replaced. I can't tell you which ones unless I had the reel in hand.

[alantani]

i think i figured it out.  i think that the threads are stripped.  i think the threads for the cam follower (key #141) and the adjusting screw (key #142) are stripped.  you'll need to replace both.  under a load, the threads slip and the reel suddenly goes into lower drag setting.  it would be like backing off the preset knob by 1 or 2 full turns.  replace them both.  i checked and i do not have those parts.  the photos did it.  once i had a chance to look at the parts, it clicked!  this HAS to the only possibility.  the same thing happens with the avets.  took a long time to figure that one out, too!

[Tightlines667]

GS got it all figured out...

Here's his response to a PM I sent..

"Thanks again for the information you shared and the picture of the endplate that was included,  I checked my plate and cup with its repationship against your photos......then pressed the cup out, rotated back like the arrows drawn in my post, viola everything is good ad it never worked right since day one.  its a penn goof??? the new notch holds it now indexed in its happy spot......thanks.
  And I added another belleville to the stack and reconfigurated them to ((()) and now its happier as well, got good freespool, and a nice ramp up at strike (15lb) and at sunset stop its evenly more.(25lb) and most importantly you and the forum helped me learn a lot.  the owner is happy too,  Its all good now!!!!!!  good fishing."

Interesting throught though Alan.  Stripped threads on the cam follower and/or preset adjust screw would exhibit similar symptoms (I.e. Inability of drag to stay within adjusted range).  I've seen similar type problems, namely the drag preset backing off during a prolonged fight when the pinion bear was total blown out as well. 

I just finished servicing a pair of International II 130STs that were in terrible condition.  One of these reels actually had a cam follower and preset adjust screw that were so badly corroded together that I had to replace the pair (this is the first time I've ever had to do this).  There was so much salt intrusion and corrosion throughout the internals (I.e, one gear set was actually fused together, and the drive shaft frozen), that I spent 14 hours on the service.  $400 in total parts costs..2 rachet plates, clicker assemblies, cam follower, preset adjust screw, 1 outer drag disc, drag plate, Bellevilles, thrust washers, and 4 new screws that were frozen (1 needed retaping), oh yea and 8 new bearings.  I actually wore the skin off of several of my finger tips cleaning and polishing parts here.  The owner admitted he had been fishing them heavily/commercially for years, and hadn't had the reels serviced since he bought them in 1999.  He thought they were acting a little strange, and after losing a pair of big Ahi decided it was time for action.  He seems happy with the final result here.

[Robert Janssen]

Yes, I got essentially the same PM.

This has been the case with UK Chris' reel, with one of my own reels as outlined above, and now GSTours' reel.

It happens. Someone over at Penn was in a hurry when they made the indexing notches in the cups, that's all.

.

[jonnou]

Its good that this can be sorted out PENN are lucky to have the support of Enthusiasts
we all make mistakes (I made all mine Last year so are in credit for the next TEN)
Just my 2cents
Jon