Kayak specific reel

[Rickman]

Hi Alan...just found this great site. I have used your Newell tutorial from Charkbait for a few years ago to keep my 30 year old 220 and 338 going. Just read your thoughts on the Penn 501 for kayaks, and drag setting and rod combo's. I am in the market for a replacement for the 338, which went into the surf in a combination of bad luck. I've been searching for it for three months and finally gave up.

My problem, and I know it's not something most would complain about, is that I live on the East Cape in Baja. I usually fish out of my kayak, 4 times a week, and maybe 10 times a year will go out with someone in their boat. I'd much rather get a fish on the kayak. I use 20 pound on the 220 and get spooled more than I like, not because the drag is too loose, but because there is a point at which the kayak will tip over if the fish takes me into deeper water and goes down. The reef I fish goes from 35 feet to over a thousand pretty quick. I now have 150 yards of spectra under the 20 and unfortunately haven't had the opportunity to see what happens. The 338 with 30lb I felt like I had more control and a chance to get fish away from the rocks on the reef I fish, as well as being better when I pulled a 2lb skipjack or mackerel around. The 338 was the rig I used on boats as well.

Whatever I buy is going to get wet...very. I don't want to clean it every day, or every week. I'm looking at Sealine X40 and Carbonex drags, but the sales on the new Saltist 40, or the Avet MXL, make me wonder if I should go higher. Are the new Newells as good? I don't do a lot of casting now, usually just troll a rapala like thing behind me on the kayak. 

Would like to get more thoughts.......

[alantani]

give a hotrodded 501 a try.  i think you will be very happy.  you'll need some parts, though.........

[Rickman]

Thanks Alan. Since they don't make the 501 anymore.....would I buy a 500 and get the parts from you? How much would I be looking at...ballpark. I'm sure decreasing the width strengthens the reel but does it get rid of that gap? How about just putting Carbonex drags in a 500?

[alantani]

here you go! 

http://cgi.ebay.com/PENN-JIGMASTER-501-NO-CLAMP-/160498335874?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item255e724082

[Norcal Pescador]

Thanks Alan. Since they don't make the 501 anymore.....would I buy a 500 and get the parts from you? How much would I be looking at...ballpark. I'm sure decreasing the width strengthens the reel but does it get rid of that gap? How about just putting Carbonex drags in a 500?

Mysticparts.com has a kit to convert a 500 to a 501 for $65. You get a spool, stand and spacer bars. Other parts for hotrodding might be the s/s gear sleeve (Alan? or Mysticparts), s/s drag washers (Smoothdrag), 5:1 gears from Newell (Charkbait), Kolekar grip (Alan), etc. I'm sure there are other mods out there. Now you're talking some serious $$$ for a jigmaster. Go for the one on eBay and save some bucks.
Also, if you put on a real short top shot of mono/fluoro (actually a leader of 5-20 feet), you'll be able to get more spectra on.
Good luck,
Rob

"Edited as per Moderators to correct Scott's Bait & Tackle over to their new store name Mystic Reel Parts / www.mysticparts.com"

[AlohaDan]

If your flipping (huli) your yak when hooked up, be sure the rod is pointing down the hull to the bow (or stern). even if the line is pulled from the side the yak will spin and point to the fish. Then adjust your drag so the fish is pulling the yak versus pulling out line.

You should be able to handle a 100lb fish with 20 lb test an the above method.

Good luck.

Edit Whoops Just read alan's update about keeping topics to technical stuff versus fishing. Sorry.

[alantani]

reels and their applications counts as technical stuff!!!!!!!!!!

[Living the Dream]

If your flipping (huli) your yak when hooked up, be sure the rod is pointing down the hull to the bow (or stern). even if the line is pulled from the side the yak will spin and point to the fish. Then adjust your drag so the fish is pulling the yak versus pulling out line.

[Hi Dan, small world.] Your fishing sounds very similar to mine. I live in the Caribbean & troll the blue water for blackfin tuna, wahoo, various mackerel, etc and I used to use the mid-size spinners and wore out a couple of them. A wise man encouraged me to 'go big' on the reel. Here's the thing, 200 yards of line is plenty for almost everything I've ever run into. But there's also a chance I could tie into a 60# wahoo. How cool would it be to land a 60# wahoo on a kayak instead of having a fish story? The solution: overkill the reel capacity, but don't overkill the drag setting. I replaced my Spheros 8000 with an 18000, I run a little heavier line/leader now (actual breaking strength ~28 pounds vs. 24 pounds), a tad higher drag (7 pounds vs 6 pounds), and a LOT more capacity (600 meters vs. 250). Here's what I learned, fishing is more enjoyable now, knowing that when I get a hookup, I don't have a weak link between the fish and me. I'm more relaxed to enjoy the moment. I think going high on the drag would be a bit dangerous w/ fish at boatside and definitely would take some fun out of the catch. And I'd have to build a heavier rod. If a fish can spool me w/ 600 meters & 7 pounds of drag from a kayak, then I say I probably don't want it near me anyway. Really, I'm using a reel that could deliver drag to beat a bluefin from a party boat, but I'm using it much differently for use on a kayak.

It sounds to me like your drag is set too high, perhaps to prevent being spooled. Heavy drag creates big problems on a kayak. Like Dan said, keep the rod pointed toward the bow and the drag moderate and you shouldn't have to worry about tipping over. Another bonus, the fish will tow you. Some times far and fast. This is crazy fun, but if you start having 'too much fun' dig your feet in to the water to slow down. I did this on my last wahoo. Now, your boat becomes part of your drag and getting towed acts like having more reel capacity. Hell, I say let a fish tow me from here to St. Vincent. When it gets tired it comes home for supper!

Also, it's common to get a fish up to the boat, only to have it sound in a BIG hurry. My tuna almost always do this. This is probably the worst point for capsize. I always try to bring a fish to the starboard side of the boat (where I'm holding my rod w/ right hand), point the tip toward the bow, but let the tip dive well into the water, actually pointing the rod down a fair bit. That reduces the lever arm the fish has to tip you with. I'll let the tip dive 2' or more into the water on a hard run. At 7 pounds drag, it's very manageable, but if you try to emulate the guys on the powerboat forums and go w/ 15 pounds of drag I'd say you're in big trouble. I don't rely on hard drag to slow the fish down, just let it sound and when it runs out of water it'll play tug of war. I catch fish up to 20 pounds and only rarely will a fish get hung up on bottom (never a tuna/wahoo/mackerel). I get the feeling that a 10 pound tuna will sound if you're using 7 pounds of drag or 17. There's no sense in trying to keep it from sounding, it'll sound anyway. Once the game of tug-o-war starts, it's bad news for mr. fish. [I find 5 pounds is clearly not enough, 6 is acceptable and will work in most situations, 7 is ideal but starts to take the fun out of 5 pound tuna].

[michaelc]

 The reel I would be looking at for the type of fishing you are talking about is a TLD15. The abilty to back the drag off quickly will let you work higher drags when it is all going to plan and do it safely.  Fill it up with 25 or 30lb mono and of course a full service and carbon drag upgrade.     

[Bryan Young]

We use a similar technique as AlohaDan stated when fishing for marlin and tuna from my friend's 15' boat (now it's 17 with the added sponsons) with 12/0 reels loaded with 180# test, 400# leader.  Does this sound familar to some of you in Hawaii with our small boats and big fish?

Last time, the fish took us around for 20 minutes before we could begin to reel in the monster  230# plus pacific blue.

[Rickman]

Thanks for the responses! I have been distracted by other things for a couple weeks. I should have know there would be kayakers on here. I know all about being towed and I used that to tire out some big fish. The problem I have is when the fish just goes absolutely straight down and that ends the easy part. I'll try putting the rod more forward but I think there is a limit as to how much drag you can apply from a kayak and the only solution is more line. I'm sure I can't put on enough pressure to justify 30 pound line, it only helps when the fish is finally close. I've caught a 60 pound yellowfin and an amberjack the same size, but I've lost enough fish that are bigger and didn't cooperate by staying up... the bottom can be a long way off.

Dan...I moved here after 20 years on Maui. Sure wish the bottom dropped off like Kona!

[Bryan Young]

Sounds like you need a bigger reel and/or start using spectra for line capacity.