Penn 505 Accurate. Slipping Star

[franky]

Happy New Year everyone!

I worked on a penn 505.  It has Bryan Young's 5 stack carbontex in it.  I greased it and everything is assembled fine.

I tighten down the star, the drag is strong and smooth.  However, when the star drag is tighten down, as I pull the line out, I notice the star is reversing and the drag becomes loose.  Once it gets to a medium tension, then the star remains constant, but it just will not hold under high (approxmiately 8 on a scale of 10).

I changed the brigde and gear sleeve with a new set, still the same problem of the star slipping.

Whats going on? ...Anyone?   

[fIsHsTiiCkS]

Are you using Bryan's spring washer that comes with the kit?

[franky]

yes

[Shark Hunter]

Some pictures of the stack will help franky. Did you grease the under gear washer? I have heard of this phenomenon. I have never experienced it myself. It has to be an issue with the stack or spacer, since you swapped out the parts and it still does it.

[franky]

Yes, the order is correct as per Bryan's diagram.  When the star is tightened down, and I pull the line out, I can see that there is so much tension that the spacer is turning backward while the line is coming out of the spool, and as a result, the star is also turning backward and loosening the drag till it gets to about medium, then the star holds constant while the line continues to come out of the reel.

I'll try adding more grease to the washer under the gearbox.

[RowdyW]

Hi Frankie, try this. When you assemble the bridge & drags put the spacer on & then put a rubber "O" ring or elastic band on the threads of the gear sleeve to hold it all together while you assemble everything into the plate. After the bridge is tightened down you can remove the rubber band etc & install the star. It sounds like the top earred washer is slipping up on top of the main gear.     RUDY

[Alto Mare]

Hi Frankie, try this. When you assemble the bridge & drags put the spacer on & then put a rubber "O" ring or elastic band on the threads of the gear sleeve to hold it all together while you assemble everything into the plate. After the bridge is tightened down you can remove the rubber band etc & install the star. It sounds like the top earred washer is slipping up on top of the main gear.     RUDY

Your stack is not getting fully compressed, something is holding it back. I'm with Rudy, sounds like a tilted eared washer on top .
Grease wouldn't have much to do with it.

Sal

[franky]

Hello and thanks for all the responses. 

Sal, the stack does seem to be getting fully compressed as the drag gets really tight.  I have to double or tripple wrap the line around my hand just to pull it out of the reel.  It is smooth with the greased carbonfiber drags from Bryan.

Yes Rowdy, I do use the o-ring on the gear sleeve. 

The problem is that when the drag is buttoned down like 80% and I tripple wrap the line around hand to pull the line out, I can see the star and the spacer going backwards and the drag pressure lightens up to about 60% and then the star stops and maintains pressure.  When I remove the bridge again, the stack is still intact with the eared washer still in the grove inside the gearbox. 

I'm trying to add more grease to the washer under the gearbox right at this moment...hopefully.... Standby....

[Alto Mare]

The tilted eared washer is usually the number one cause, I'm still not getting why grease under the gear would have anything to do with what you're experiencing, but you never know.
I believe Fishsticks was going in this direction. If it still doesn't do it, try a stock tension spring, I'm not crazy about the one you're using and don't have them on any of my Jigmasters.

[franky]

Okay, I seemed to have gotten it.

Yes, Sal and Fishsticks...I put back the stock 505 belleville at the top of the stack and since I was in there, I put a little more grease on the washer under the gearbox as well.

Closed everything up, tighten the star, and wrapped the line around my hand 3 times and pulled.  The drag seems to be not as strong, but it is still good for this size reel.  Now, it is still very smooth and the star does not go backwards.  It maintains constant when it is tightened.

Hopefully, it continues to behave while the person is fishing it.

[Alto Mare]

I'm glad you got it worked out. Now if you're really looking for smoothness, try here, you won't get better:
http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=12549.msg123608#msg123608

[fIsHsTiiCkS]

Indeed that was the direction I was heading. If the stack is in right orientation then the problem is usually the tension spring or the star itself. Now I personally use Bryan's spring and have no issues. So If the problem occurs again I would change the star. Either way glad it's working now!

[Shark Hunter]

Glad you got it franky,
My intention of mentioning the under gear is that maybe it was forgotten.

[Alto Mare]

Indeed that was the direction I was heading. If the stack is in right orientation then the problem is usually the tension spring or the star itself. Now I personally use Bryan's spring and have no issues. So If the problem occurs again I would change the star. Either way glad it's working now!

You're right, the belleville that Bryan uses will work, I just don't like How it works. To me it's just too stiff, applying drag pressure doesn't work as I would like.
I still say replacing that belleville washer with an Acetal one, is the best way to go, but you will also need one for under the main gear .

[Bryan Young]

Sorry I'm late to the party.  Glad you got it worked out, but it still sounds strange to me because the gear sleeve, belleville, spacer, and top keyed washer should be turning together...quite the handle.

It is quite possible that the top eared washer does not stay in the gear and may be spinning on top. 

Franky, call me if you run into any more problems.