Full Undergear Drag Washer

[trond_solem]

When discussing 5+1 drags, I can't see that anyone has tried the idea of putting a keyed steel washer at the bottom of the gear sleeve and a carbon drag on top of that before the main gear is put on to of that again. This will require some modification to the gear sleeve. You have to file it down flat on both sides so that the keyed washer can go all the way to the botton up against the ratchet. Will this work, or will the main gear be pushed off center on the sleeve so that the gear teeth breaks?
maybe a narrow key slot on one side is enough to keep the keyed washer from spinning? A steel washer and a drag washer below the main gear will do nothing if the steel washer is allowed to spin on the gear sleeve.

Something like this:

[Bryan Young]

We've been talking about it, but like everything, it takes funds. 

Newell Nut took one of my thin washers, and glued it to the gear sleeve with great results.  If excess funds become available we are thinking of doing this for Newell reels, and possibly Penn reels.

[trond_solem]

If you plan to make new SS gear sleeves, why not make it an integral part of the sleeve?
It will complicate the machining, but the washer may be welded to the  sleeve and the weld turned down afterwards.

I think I have to set up my lathe and have a go at it. :-)

[Keta]

It will complicate the machining, but the washer may be welded to the  sleeve and the weld turned down afterwards.

Silver solder them on.   

[Alto Mare]

I don't believe the washer at the top of the ratchet needs to be welded, it could slide in as the latest and do just fine. Not so much for that carbon fiber washer there, I'm a strong believer that it should be a Delrin washer.
I'm gathering parts for my Huber Tank , I liked the idea of that thin keyed washer  at the bottom of the gear so much that I made my own sleeve for it.

and the .20mm Delrin on top of it


This is a good upgrade.

[BMITCH]

Sal, what do you mean that you made your own sleeve??

[Alto Mare]

Sal, what do you mean that you made your own sleeve??

Sorry Bob, no I did not make my own sleeve, I could never do that, I meant to say I filed the flat side all the way down to accept the keyed washer on top of the ratchet.

[Newell Nut]

I have not done it that way Sal but I think you will have good success with it. The delrin under the gear is working good for me on my Newells. The delrin on top of the Conflict 8000 stack is working great too.

[Alto Mare]

I know that they will do just fine, I've tested those already on others. Alan has the sleeve already available, I wasn't sure that he also has them for the 6/0, so I filed down my own, more to just give it a shot.

[BMITCH]

Sal, I don't have any of the SS sleeves in front of me at this moment...but are the flats NOT continued all the way to the bottom of the sleeve shaft?? If not, you were able to file the SS sleeve flat. If so, how did you keep it square.? This all very interesting to me due to about a year or two ago I was worried about the cf washers extending over the ratchet teeth and causing havoc. Also what thickness flat keyed washer are you using here? This is looking like a good resolve to those issues. Once again winter has set in and my mind is starting to turn towards working on more reels.

[Alto Mare]

Bob, flat sides don't go all the way down, I did mine by hand its about feel and can't really tell you how I kept it square, Just put the sleeve in a wood vise and keep an eye on it as you use the file.
Although I'm not crazy about the one notch on the sleeve shown above,I don't believe it would last very long, but Trond has a valid point about having two sides flat, I don't believe it would be a problem on Jigmasters and probably on others, but on larger reels it might. We'll need to test them on the water and see.

[BMITCH]

So the second part of the question would be...the washer + the delrin washer thickness has to equal a cf or the original penn plastic washer thickness. Did you custom made the keyed washer. What thickness?

[Alto Mare]

Penn stock washer for under the gear is .80mm. Bryan's keyed washer is .50mm, the Delrin is .44mm, giving you .94mm. If the washer for under the gear is 1mm or less, you will do just fine. I just checked the gear and sleeve again, the ones with the flat sides going all the way down as the same tilt as the one without. Gears wouldn't tilt when drag is tight,if they did, it would have been a problem on many reels.
Most gears are lose on the sleeve and perform just fine.

[trond_solem]

Bob, flat sides don't go all the way down, I did mine by hand its about feel and can't really tell you how I kept it square, Just put the sleeve in a wood vise and keep an eye on it as you use the file.
Although I'm not crazy about the one notch on the sleeve shown above,I don't believe it would last very long, but Trond has a valid point about having two sides flat, I don't believe it would be a problem on Jigmasters and probably on others, but on larger reels it might. We'll need to test them on the water and see.

You are right about that one notch isn't going to hold up to the loads. It will shear off, but if you use two notches, it will hold. Strangely, the simulations says it will be more than twice as strong. This may be caused by more even distrubution of forces.

The first image is 0.6mm 316 stainless steel subjected to a torque that equals 5 lbs drag on it's own, in a reel with a spool filled to 60mm dia and 4:1 gears.
It is earlier stated that each drag surface generates about 5 lbs of drag, so I think this is the value to use.  A better steel will make it even stronger.
10lbs drag on each surface will make the soft 316 steel deform.
However, as the second image shows, using 15-5ph steel heat treated with the H900 process will be more than strong enough by a factor of 7.76, for 10lbs drag on each surface.

[Keta]

I'm not sure the gearsleeve is thick enough to mill the grove in it and still be strong enough.