Older Rod Re-wrap

[Keta]

Once I tried a spiral wrap rod I can't go back.

[Reel 224]

Once I tried a spiral wrap rod I can't go back.

Now you guys have added another hitch to my decision making.....THANKS!!  

[Steve-O]

You're quite welcome!! 

I have seen the proof in the pudding on land and on the water fighting/playing a fish with a conventional reel matched with a spiral wrapped rod.

The simple test is a bucket of sand, rocks, water, lead, whatever attached to your line with the spiral wrapped rod.

Then open your non-reeling hand and rear back and see what does and doesn't happen. Turn the handle with the other hand open and watch how the spiraled guides and down facing tip top negate nearly 100% of the rod torque. It's so surprising it made me type all this....

[Dominick]

Yep, a little wordy there Steve.  I haven't fished with a spiral wrap and Alan T offered to let me borrow one.  I'm not a borrower so I did not take him up on it.  I am going to finally get one.  Do you hear me Jon?  Dominick

[Tiddlerbasher]

Dominick - every rod I have (for conventionals) aside from baitcasters is spiral wrapped. It does eliminate rod twist in the hand. I have intended to measure the amount of 'twist' a conventional rod imparts - just haven't come up with a suitable measuring technique, yet

I did purposely wrap a rod at 90 degrees to the spine - to demonstrate to a friend that it works - I now have a request for four rods to be spiral wrapped - more work

I would still recommend finding the spine and wrap accordingly - its just that a spiral wrap removes the perceived twist in the hand

[Reel 224]

Think Ill let you guys plug John for a rod "(Dominick)" and Ill just make one for myself soon as I can make up my mind on which rod to purchase.

[Dominick]

Think Ill let you guys plug John for a rod "(Dominick)" and Ill just make one for myself soon as I can make up my mind on which rod to purchase.

Joe if you don't have any experience spiral wrapping I suggest you research the rod section of this site.  I sort of remember someone posting instructions on spacing and angles for a spiral wrap.  Dominick

[Jon Vadney]

Yep, a little wordy there Steve.  I haven't fished with a spiral wrap and Alan T offered to let me borrow one.  I'm not a borrower so I did not take him up on it.  I am going to finally get one.  Do you hear me Jon?  Dominick

I hear you and am ready and waiting

[Jon Vadney]

All joking aside about spiral guide placement, it's actually a helluva lot easier than standard placement in my opinion.  Here's why: on a conventionally wrapped, say....7' rod, you have to worry about the line touching the blank in between 8 or 9 guides.  On a spiral wrapped rod, you only have to worry about it on the first 3-4 guides (transition guides).  After that, it's impossible for the line to touch the blank.

Now in terms of spiraling methods, throw out all of the jibberjabber formulas, guide wheels, and all that other crap.  It really over-complicates something that is simple.  Here's the thought process I go through when spiral wrapping a rod:
What is the intended purpose of the rod?
Does this intended purpose require a lot of casting?
Is the blank fast, moderate, or slow in action?

Those 3 questions determine what kind of transition I will use.  So lets say that I'm building a Calstar 700M (30# boat rod) for a guy who is going to use it for live bait fishing out of SD:
What is the intended purpose of the rod? - live bait fishing, mostly sardines, occasional swimbait on the slide, medium sized tuna and YT
Does this intended purpose require a lot of casting? - a little casting, but casting isn't the main focus
Is the blank fast, moderate, or slow in action? - the 700m is, imo, a fast rod that is verging on moderate.

OK, so now that I've got that figured out, I will probably go with a 3 guide transition.  This will give the angler the ability to still cast if he wants to, but it doesn't need to be some ultra slow transition and I can get the guides to the bottom of the rod as quick as possible (the more guides you have on the 180 degree axis, the more stable the rod will be).

Now.... youre probably thinking "jon...this doesn't tell me crap about WHERE to put those guides", and you're right, as it would be impossible for me to tell you where they go.  What you have to do is this:  put a reel that is similar in size to what will be eventually used on the rod, in the reel seat.  Measure 22" from the center of the spool up to the blank and make a mark.  Next, install your tip top on the 180 degree axis.  Measure 3.75" back from the tip and then progressively increase the spacing back to the stripping guide.  A rod this long, with it's moderate-fast action should require 8 guides.  Tape the guides on and run the line through the guides.  Put the rod in a rod holder, or have someone hold onto it for you and load the rod to it's maximum (do this by pulling down on the tip of the blank, not on the line as you'll just pull the guides off of the rod) and keep the line taught.  
What you are looking for here is the line to make a straight path to the bottom of the rod when the rod is loaded, when viewed from the side.  What you do not want is the line to make sharp angles in between the guides.  An easy way to think about this is you want the line to touch the ring of the guide at the point which is closest to the blank.

Below is a picture of someone else's build.  If you look at the 2nd guide up, you see how the line isn't straight and there's an angle in the line between the 1st and 3rd guide?  You don't want that.  I would have moved that second guide slightly more to the "right" to give that line a straight path.

[Jon Vadney]

Now, on the flip side, if I were building a surface iron rod where casting is of the utmost importance, I would probably use a 4 guide transition.  On the other extreme, vertical jigging rods, I would probably go with a 2 guide transition using the "simple spiral" method.  If someone is curious about that, let me know and I can type out how that's done.

[Dominick]

Jon:  PM sent.  Dominick

[Steve-O]

I see the angle in the line where it enters and exits the guide. Not good for line friction, IMO. What I noticed also is that it's wrapped clockwise....is that a no-no? Or not? Mine are going around to the left for right handed reeling. Does it matter?

I did the "tape the guides to the blank after finding the spine"scientific method when doing mine...then loaded the rod with the matched reel and line and spaced my guides accordingly.

Mind you I've only done 6-8 rods total for me only so my input is the least experienced.

And yes, D, I can be "wordy" at times..and absent minded...uhhh...what was the question?

[Jon Vadney]

For freshwater rods I wrap the guides to the direction of the handle so that when you lay the rod down on the deck, the guides are up.  On saltwater rods, I spiral them the opposite direction of the handle to make leveling easier.

[Newell Nut]

From all of my research and builds I basically do the same thing that Jon has described. Only thing to add is something that I know Jon does and I do as well is offset the first guide from the reel to make thumbing the spool a little easier and this can vary depending on the width of the reel. While the reel is mounting and you do that load test to see how the line is going to run just move line to either side of the spool and see if you get a hard angle on either side of the stripper guide. Find a happy medium. This will also make a difference in casting.

[Reel 224]

Lots of good suggestions here on doing an acid rod, I PMed John and he gave me a good choice on blanks to start with so next thing is saving my pennies to get started. Soon as I start this project I will post pictures...It probably wont happen until this fall, that's when I do my rod building. On my way out soon to pick up bait for to nights Stripier fishing, the stooped weather report kept us from going out last night and turned out to be nothing darn weatherman!