Quick Mitchell 302 question: tightness of Hex nut?

[newfuturevintage]

Hi all--

I've got an ebay 302 that I thought I'd cleaned and rebuilt OK, but but was sorely mistaken.  I fear I'm not getting the hex nut that holds the rotor head in place tight enough. 



It's #20 in the diagram above (81362 in later schematics). When I put moderate backwards pressure on the rotating head, the nut (and chaos) breaks loose. 

Question: how tight should I tighten this nut, and should I be using anything like a thread locker on it?  Also, is there any trick to tightening it?

Unlike the diagram above, mine also has the "hex nut lock washer" (seems to be just a plain flat washer) between the nut and the rotor head. Shows up in schematics as 81359 "locking washer"

Thanks!

Ron

[Shark Hunter]

Fred is you Man. I'm sure he will tell you all about it when he sees this.

[foakes]

Hi Ron --

In some of the older schematics -- there is a locking washer like yours -- and you are right, it is part #81359


I pulled apart 2 old 302s -- and the nut was holding just fine without any lock washer.  Have around 20 or 30 of these old 302s -- and did not want to break any more down --





If the nut is not holding when you tighten it down? -- then some thread locker like loctite probably will not do any good.  Also, a new lock washer is likely needed -- but it also possibly will not remedy your issue -- since it is likely that either the hex nut, or the pinion gear have slightly stripped threads that are not easily apparent to the naked eye.  I do have the lock washer, hex nut, and pinion gear as new old stock -- and you are welcome to them for just a few bucks for postage.

However, this is still not a guarantee that your problem will be cured -- since these old 302s are real work horses that generally have other issues due to a hard life in the surf/salt.  And few folks know how to take apart and service the over-complicated drag stack.  Because there are too many parts -- and they are easily lost when folks try to remove the screwed on spool.

However, I think you may get lucky -- and these parts will at least help somewhat. 

If you decide to go this route, be careful with the tiny Pinion Key that inserts into the pinion shaft -- easy to lose in a tiny gob of grease.


Best,

Fred

[newfuturevintage]

Fred, amazing.  Thank you so much for the detailed analysis of these 302s!

Yes, I'd be grateful for the parts you've offered. Just send me a PM with the where/how/how much, and I'll get some funds to you.

RE: the pinion key, yep, I learned that the hard way: when this first happened to me, I was in the surf at Baker Beach flinging crab snares.  Went to retrieve/ set the snare and fooooosh! everything went crazy.
The post-mortem analysis saw that little key mushed into a bit of grease at the bottom of the rotor head. Kind of amazing it didn't get lost in the surf. 

The old key was out-of-square. so I replaced it with a NOS part, and thought that'd cured the problem, and it is better now, but what you're saying makes a lot of sense: there's other out-of-wack-edness at play here.

Thanks again!

Ron

[fIsHsTiiCkS]

Little of topic. But i have a 308 and completely Broken down but cant figure how to get the pinion out

[foakes]

Will do, Ron --

Fishsticks -- look for the head of a tiny set screw -- generally on the left side where the pinion is inserted -- you will need a rag to wipe oil and grease off to see it, as well as a very small screwdriver -- believe me, it is there!

If you decide to take the pinion bearing apart to clean it -- it unscrews way to easily -- tiny ball bearings the size of pin heads will scatter everywhere -- so a magnet is your buddy here -- and you will likely not find all of them -- but it will work acceptably with one or two missing -- no more than that.

So I would just drop the assembled pinion bearing assembly in lacquer thinner for about 30 minutes -- shake it well -- remove and rinse off with warm water -- dry with a blower -- reoil and reinstall...

Leave it to the French to invent a product like this -- I make a lot of $$$ working on Mitchell's -- since when a person not versed in the details tries to restore one -- either parts are missing or lost through the process.  Happens easily and frequently.  That is why you can find bargains on these at yard sales -- they haven't been in operation since the last time they were worked on by the average person.

And we are not even talking yet -- about the need to copper shim these old Mitchells as they wear down with use -- it is an imperfect trial and error method that even a knowledgeable person will need to do at least a couple of times to get it right.  Very finicky...

If anything else, let me know.

Best,

Fred

[Aiala]

Leave it to the French to invent a product like this -- since when a person not versed in the details tries to restore one -- either parts are missing or lost through the process.

Or, in a moment of supreme stupidity, one actually throws away a needed part... which I recently did during the restoration of my 402. 

Fortunately, Fred the Magnificent was able to rescue me from my own idiocy.   

~A~

[Shark Hunter]

I think Fred's Super Hero Name should be "Fred Almighty!"

[newfuturevintage]

Leave it to the French to invent a product like this -- since when a person not versed in the details tries to restore one -- either parts are missing or lost through the process.

Or, in a moment of supreme stupidity, one actually throws away a needed part... which I recently did during the restoration of my 402. 

Fortunately, Fred the Magnificent was able to rescue me from my own idiocy.   

~A~

I can't say I've never done anything like this

I'm still happy when I put a car repair back together and don't come out of the process with "bonus parts".

[newfuturevintage]

I think Fred's Super Hero Name should be "Fred Almighty!"

I'm gonna second this.  

Thanks, Fred, I took the stormed in opportunity today to tackle this 302 issue.  Looks like there were a few problems, after all:

main issue: the key kept coming out of the pinion gear when the rotor head was being put into place, so it seemed like it was OK, but would let the rotor spin freely.  New stuff helped out immensely here.

Secondary issues:  the lock washer on mine was fully flattened, so no upward pressure was being exerted on the nut.  Probably not a big issue, but still a thing. Also the nut was a titch worn, so the new nut really seems to be grabbing in much more tightly.  This'll take care of it.

I also replaced the drag base with the included part.  Didn't realize that the original part was slightly bent so there was a subtle rubbing of the rotor against the spool.  All gone now, thanks!

Lastly, I took this opportunity to pull the reel totally apart, clean it thoroughly, and repack the bearing (got lucky, the set-screws were easy to back out).  Man, this reel feels great now.

Thanks Fred, this was a tremendous help!

For other random internet folks that might happen on this in the future: when placing the rotor head over the key, if there's any resistance to driving the rotor home that feels like you're hitting something solid, you've done it wrong and need to do it again. Align everything up, and try again. You've done it right when the rotor snugly, but easily goes all the way to the base of the reel housing.

[foakes]

You are welcome, Ron --

But the really good part, is that you were able to analyze your reel issues -- and after getting parts -- explain to others a couple of hints -- all the while getting more experience under your belt.

That is what this site of Alan's is all about -- sharing, teaching, assisting, paying it forward -- and allowing others to gain the confidence and experience to share with others.

Good work...

Best,

Fred