Ambassadeur Inshore 6500 - feels uneven and hard to crank - ideas?

[Jon_Kol]

Hi everyone!

It's been a while since I've posted here, but now it's that time of year again.

I've just serviced an Ambassadeur 6500 Inshore, which the owner has always had a few troubles with. Brand new and straight out of the box, he reacted that it felt much less smooth than his other Ambassadeurs (6500 C3's etc), and from day one it has always felt rugged/uneven/hard and wobbly to crank - with or without fish at the other end of the line.

The resistance in the reel increases when the spool break is tightened, however it does not by far go away even if the break is loosened until the cap comes off. With the spool break tightened good, the reel feels horrible to crank.

I cannot find anything wrong with the bearings, I've tried setting the brake blocks in various settings to see if one of them were too tight to the spool, I cannot see anything bent out of shape, the reel's inside seems to match everything in the schematics and I'm starting to run out of ideas.

I've taken everything apart and given it all the TLC I can, yet the problem remains the same every time I put the reel back together. The ONLY part I have not taken off, has not been done so with simply because I can't get it of/don't know if it comes off at all? I'm talking about this part:


The level-wind idler gear - correct?

Can it be taken off? I've haven't risked pulling much at it, and I can't see any clip or simular stuff holding it down. I noted that when inserting the spool into the bearing seen in this picture, and giving the spool a light spin, a noise can be heard - almost like something is slightly touching the side of something else while spinning. But the bearing seems fine, from what I can tell. Of course I cannot say that with 100% certainty, since I can't get it out due to the fact that the level-wind idler gear next to it..

Also, I noted that the "clutch position holder" is very tight in this reel when installing it, almost feels like it could be clamping down on the parts underneath it too much. I have no idea if this is a plausible theory, but it was just something that I reacted to when looking at the reel.

Any ideas? Feel free to ask me what I've tried out and/or tested.

Oh, and one more thing: The reel is marked 170220/39 under the reel foot. As far as i can tell, this should be the correct schematic:

http://s7d5.scene7.com/is/content/purefishing/Abu%20Garcia/Schematics/6500INSHORE%20%201702.pdf

But why are these reels listed as Inshore 6500 1701, 1702, 1703 etc? What do those numbers stand for?

As always, I appreciate any tip and comment here if anyone has an idea on what I'm missing.

Have a great day!

From across the blue,
Jon - Norway

[foakes]

Hi Jon --

Try this:

The white nylon idler level wind gear does come off fairly easily -- it snaps on and snaps off.

Get a small screwdriver under it -- and gently apply pressure upward -- by twisting the screwdriver, not by prying.

Now, reassemble the reel without this gear -- see if it is the same or better without the levelwind active.

At this point you have either narrowed the issue to the levelwind mechanism -- or eliminated that possibility.

Sounds like you have done a thorough job -- but you will likely need to go through every possibility in the drive train of moving parts -- tricky, but very doable.

Let us know how you get along with it -- and if we can help further...

Best,

Fred

[Bryan Young]

To remove the idler gear, I run braided line underneath as close to the gear shaft as possible and the reset goes out to the edge of the idler gear and give it a constant pull and it will pop off.

If you hold on to the handle, how much side to side movement does handle have?  My guess would be improper thickness of Part 4490 or 5189.  Other than that, I cannot see where there would be greater binding when you tighten up the brakes.

[Jon_Kol]

Thanks so far, both of you. I'll have a go at the idle gear as soon as my desk has been cleared of the Shimano Stradic C14 3000 FA that's in pieces infront of me right now. I got this one sent to me via mail, so much for no corrosion is all I can say so far..

Oh, there was one more thing I forgot to mention in my post! The spool on the 6500 Inshore that I have here has four brake blocks, while the schematic operates with a spool drawing that shows the spool with only two brake blocks. Is this just a coincidence, do they use both two and four brake block spools within the same model of reel?

[Bryan Young]

If the spool in inserted into the sideplate with the brake blocks inserted all the way, and spins freely, this would not be the cause of the binding you are describing.

I've seen some other Abus with 2 brake posts and other of the same reel with 4.  I'm not sure how they determine if one gets 2 versus 4, but it will not matter if you remove all brake blocks.  At least if you have 4, you can use all 4 for greater braking.

[handi2]

To remove the idler gear, I run braided line underneath as close to the gear shaft as possible and the reset goes out to the edge of the idler gear and give it a constant pull and it will pop off.

If you hold on to the handle, how much side to side movement does handle have?  My guess would be improper thickness of Part 4490 or 5189.  Other than that, I cannot see where there would be greater binding when you tighten up the brakes.

That's how I do it also..

[Jon_Kol]

I've tried small screwdrivers, big screwdrivers, braided line, thick mono line... that nylon idle gear won't move. If I'm to try any harder with either object of removal, I'll break it for sure. I wonder how it's possible to attach a part that hard, if it's to snap on and off? Not a chance that I'm able to get it out in one piece.

The gear seems to be spinning just fine when I give it a spin with my hand, I don't even know if there's something wrong with it. But I'd like to get it out so that I can get that bearing out as well, and see if it's ok too.

[Fish-aholic]

I too had an idler gear that refused to be removed from it's shaft. I ended up doing exactly the same as in the below video. Once the lip has been cut away, the idler gear will then have to be kept in place with an e-clip. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZSDvSFwHW4&list=FLoDKTx1uVdDrfbmI8eFXVIg&index=1

[newport]

Yeah you have to cut it out and it will pop out easily. I called abu garcia about it and instead of getting the e clip, you can just buy another idler gear from them as a replacement. I don't know how true that is though, because I put in a speed bushing in place of it.

[Jon_Kol]

Thanks for the c-section version of removing the idle gear. Luckily, I didn't have to try it. I was getting a bit frustrated with this reel, so today I took everything apart once again and looked closely at each part. And after some time, there it was: Two of the brake block holders were infact slightly bent, one more than the other. I had to hold the piece up towards the lamp light with a black background to be able to see it. I took the plastic pieces off, and caaaarefully bent the two metal parts so that they straightened out. Re-installed the part, pushed the plastic pieces all the way in on each "block", put the reel back together and voilá - it spun like never before and the rugged feeling when cracking the handle was all gone.

I also found that the Bellevilles were not installed as they should have been, so I guess my friend will not only experience a much smoother reel now, but he'll also have a bit more stopping power when needed.

Again, thank you all for comments and the help. I really appreciate all the input. Now I can set this reel aside, and wait for the TICA offshore reel that is heading my way next week. There's always a reel-friend in need out there..

-Jon-