Small Avet Dog Mechanism

mike1010 · March 31, 2015, 09:16:25 PM

I have experience with the SX and MX series reels, which use a single dog activated by a patented, friction-based mechanism. Schematics suggest that is used on all Avet reels up through the HX series. Above that, double, spring-activated dogs appear.

The friction mechanism seems like a fancier implementation of the Ambassadeur-style dog, possibly with similar failure modes. On the other hand, I haven't heard stories about dog failures on Avets, and haven't found alantani.com discussion of any issues, except for a little here: http://alantani.com/index.php?topic=8561.

So what do folks think? Is this a weakness in the reels? It not, what's the magic? Thanks.

--Mike

alantani · March 31, 2015, 09:21:52 PM

they work fine! the guys at avet have designed nice reels. there are a few things that i disagree on, but for the most part it's a great reel!

Keta · March 31, 2015, 09:27:36 PM

The only AR problem I've seen on these reels was from salt build up under the AR dog due to improper rinsing. The design works well.

Bryan Young · March 31, 2015, 09:33:32 PM

It's really a pretty good system. Too much grease or salt build up on the dog area limits travel and does not engage. If you rinse your reels off good and ad a drop or two of CorrosionX or TSI periodically in the dog mechanism, it should never fail. ...and for the money, fully machined aluminum frame reels made in the USA, they are great reels if you fish them within it's limits.

johndtuttle · March 31, 2015, 09:35:40 PM

The only quibble I would have is being *very careful* if you remove the spring gripping the shaft. Its gonna be one of those finicky things that has to grip just right or fail.

mike1010 · March 31, 2015, 09:51:56 PM

Thanks for the prompt replies. There is no question about the overall goodness of the reels, especially at the price. I have a few Avets, and just got a good deal on a like-new SXJ 5.3, which I had been looking for a while. It is now better than new, having been fully serviced.

Quote from: johndtuttle on March 31, 2015, 09:35:40 PM
The only quibble I would have is being *very careful* if you remove the spring gripping the shaft. Its gonna be one of those finicky things that has to grip just right or fail.

John, I'm not sure what spring you mean. Is this on one of the small Avets? The only problem I consistently run into is that the oh-so-small, barely visible spool spring washers like to go missing, often stuck to someplace like my elbow.

--Mike

Jeri · April 01, 2015, 03:02:31 AM

Hi Mike,

I think your concerns about any of the mechanisms in Avets is unfounded. We have been selling and servicing them for the last 10 years, and in our application of wading and surf fishing, we probably abuse them more than most. And we use most of the models SX, MX and LX.

Apart from a few early learning curve issues of not exceeding the stated drag settings, and learning to wash out reels after immersion, we have only once had an issue with an anti-reverse mechanism, and that was pure angler stupidity. The guy freely admits to have left the reel at strike position when making a huge cast with a long surf rod and a 7oz sinker and bait – that bent the little actuating arm, as with a cast of that power something had to give. But, apart from that brutality, we have never in 10 years had an issue with any of the Avet mechanisms, only the odd bearing.

The anti-reverse mechanism is seriously more effective and long lasting, when compared to the clip spring type pawls – almost Rolls Royce in comparison.

Cheers from sunny Africa

Jeri

Keta · April 01, 2015, 03:11:38 AM

Quote from: mike1010 on March 31, 2015, 09:51:56 PMJohn, I'm not sure what spring you mean. Is this on one of the small Avets? The only problem I consistently run into is that the oh-so-small, barely visible spool spring washers like to go missing, often stuck to someplace like my elbow.

--Mike

I keep several of these washers in stock.

Bryan Young · April 01, 2015, 06:14:38 AM

The spring, I believe, in question is the spring that clamps down on the black plastic piece.

By they way, the straight tab should be installed so that it is lying on top of the flat stainless steel s-curved actuator thingy.

Keta · April 01, 2015, 01:35:11 PM

Quote from: Bryan Young on April 01, 2015, 06:14:38 AM
By they way, the straight tab should be installed so that it is lying on top of the flat stainless steel s-curved actuator thingy.

Right by the red arrow. The end of the spring should be on top of the actuator arm "thingy".

mike1010 · April 01, 2015, 02:05:15 PM

Quote from: Bryan Young on April 01, 2015, 06:14:38 AM

The spring, I believe, in question is the spring that clamps down on the black plastic piece.

By they way, the straight tab should be installed so that it is lying on top of the flat stainless steel s-curved actuator thingy.

Okay, that spring. Yeah, I can believe there's room to get that wrong. Thanks. As for the spring tab and actuator, I did that wrong once, but things didn't feel right, and so progress came to a halt until I figured it out.

I've been playing with an Avet and an Ambassadeur, trying to understand why the Avet dog works better. Here's what I've got so far.

The Avet friction washer and spring may be a little touchy, but are mechanically more sound than Ambassadeur dog ears just pinched onto the gear.

The Avet friction washer is unlikely to slip because it contacts the AR and main gear near the center, the slowest moving part of the gear. Ambassadeur dog ears ride the fastest moving part of the gear, making them more prone to slip.

The Avet connection arm essentially pulls the dog in on a radius of the gear, so there is no way that the dog will miss engaging. The Ambassadeur gear applies force to the dog ears on a tangent to the gear. Depending on what's going on between the dog ear surfaces and the gear surfaces, there is some non-zero chance that this will fail to direct the dog to the gear teeth. Major slippage.

So far, so good? What else? Thanks.

--Mike

Keta · April 01, 2015, 02:10:17 PM

More contact surface and the Avet "spring" grabs and pulls the actuator arm, the ABU is 100% friction.

mike1010 · April 01, 2015, 02:42:40 PM

Quote from: Keta on April 01, 2015, 02:10:17 PM
More contact surface and the Avet "spring" grabs and pulls the actuator arm, the ABU is 100% friction.

Not sure I agree about the actuator arm. It does not generate any force; that still comes all from friction. The arm does direct that force to be effective, though.

johndtuttle · April 01, 2015, 02:46:08 PM

Yea, so my "quibble" with the Avet style spring is not that they would slip in regular use without significant abuse, I think they are an improvement in that regard.

It is when removing the spring that you have to be especially careful. Once bent, that type (that I have seen in spinners) is very difficult to get working properly again. Abu style dogs at least can be re-bent if worse comes to worst.

All in all I think I like the trend towards silent mechanical dogs. I am a big fan of quiet reels.

Keta · April 01, 2015, 02:48:37 PM

Quote from: mike1010 on April 01, 2015, 02:42:40 PM
Quote from: Keta on April 01, 2015, 02:10:17 PM
More contact surface and the Avet "spring" grabs and pulls the actuator arm, the ABU is 100% friction.

Not sure I agree about the actuator arm. It does not generate any force; that still comes all from friction. The arm does direct that force to be effective, though.

The spring not the arm, the arm just transfers the force.