113 hn baja special

[handi2]

I'm sure there is a picture here. At Mystic Reel Parts they have a tutorial on how to replace the eccentric and lever. It's a little different than most.

Here you go. Its the Torque model but close to what you need.

https://scottsbt.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/articles/203741799


"Edited as per Moderators to correct Scott's Bait & Tackles old online store over to their new store name Mystic Reel Parts / www.mysticparts.com"

[skneip49]

I have been reading all these replies, looking for a comment regarding the dogs. I opened up my reel after my last trip for an inspection and service,  couldn't believe what I found. Metal shavings like you might find in a machine shop.

Turns out the dogs (pawls) were dinged up and deformed to the point of having "wings" for lack of a better term. These gouged up the backside of the main gear, couple of good sized grooves. Thought about putting them on a file,  but then decided this nearly 10 year old reel deserves some fresh parts. Ordered a pair of pawls, new gear sleeve and a metal drag star wheel to replace the graphite one.

Another question, I found a tiny bearing on the short shaft between the pinion gear and the large bearing on the spool. Did not see it in the pictures in the opening post.

I have one Baja that has limited clearance between the a/r dogs and main gear. I had to grind the O.D. on a 6-113 HT-100 to get the thickness I needed. Seens good, have to see how it holds up when used.
borchcl

[jurelometer]

I have been reading all these replies, looking for a comment regarding the dogs. I opened up my reel after my last trip for an inspection and service,  couldn't believe what I found. Metal shavings like you might find in a machine shop.

Turns out the dogs (pawls) were dinged up and deformed to the point of having "wings" for lack of a better term. These gouged up the backside of the main gear, couple of good sized grooves. Thought about putting them on a file,  but then decided this nearly 10 year old reel deserves some fresh parts. Ordered a pair of pawls, new gear sleeve and a metal drag star wheel to replace the graphite one.

Another question, I found a tiny bearing on the short shaft between the pinion gear and the large bearing on the spool. Did not see it in the pictures in the opening post.

Does your reel have the upgrade that includes adding a ball bearing to the handle side of the gear sleeve?

A symptom of the gear sleeve out of alignment under high load would be the dog damage you describe.  I have read that the bearing upgrade is mainly for ease of winding under load.   I disagree- it should help stabilize the gear sleeve, which is the Achilles heel of the classic Penns.   more importantly, Penn seems to have the same position (on the purpose of the added bearing, not the Achilles heel   )  

Here is the design change/upgrade statement from Penn via Scotts:

https://www.mysticparts.com/Assets/images/pennparts/information/bajaspecialilinechange.pdf


-j


"Edited as per Moderators to correct Scott's Bait & Tackles old online store over to their new store name Mystic Reel Parts / www.mysticparts.com"

[handi2]

That tiny bearing fits into a small opening in the center of the spool shaft.

[skneip49]

Roger that, but the bearing doesn't show on the schematic? And, no, my reel does not have the 6th bearing. I have fished it
hard with the drag buttoned down,  mostly yoyo iron for Baja Yellowtail but also tossing lures at Wahoo.

The reason I ordered a new gear sleeve is because when I was taking it apart,  I had difficulty getting some of the parts to slide off. And, it makes no sense that removing slop at the outer end of the gear sleeve would cause damage to the dogs on the inner end. Dogs get worn like this from heavy use. Like the damage I've seen on Toriums and Trinidads.

That tiny bearing fits into a small opening in the center of the spool shaft.

[jurelometer]

[...]

The reason I ordered a new gear sleeve is because when I was taking it apart,  I had difficulty getting some of the parts to slide off. And, it makes no sense that removing slop at the outer end of the gear sleeve would cause damage to the dogs on the inner end. Dogs get worn like this from heavy use. Like the damage I've seen on Toriums and Trinidads.

The gear sleeve tilts under heavy load because it is on an axle supported on only one end. If one end is tilted, so is the other.  When it tilts, the dog is no longer engaging the full width  of the ratchet that tilts with the gear sleeve.  This decreases  the load required for dog shredding.   Try  to see how much you can move the gear sleeve by pulling the handle knob away and toward the sideplate. 

The upgrade replaces the sideplate and adds a bearing.    Now the shaft is supported on both ends, the alignment remains true(er), and the dogs should engage more fully under load.   You should find it much more difficult to lever the gear sleeve out of alignment by pulling/pushing the knob.

The sleeve can be driven out of alignment  from drag pressure alone, but winding under heavy load increases the likelihood for a combination of reasons.

On most penns  the gears shred before the dog fails, but the baja special has hardened 17-4 stainless gears.   The dogs may still be your weak link, but I would expect it should take more load with the upgrade. 

It could be that you are right and that  the dog themselves are the source of the failure and will twist out of position under load. The dogs look a little on the thick side.   But keeping the shafts (and therefore the dogs and ratchet) aligned should still help in this scenario,  and Penn made a decision to strengthen the handle shaft assembly for a reason.

Hope this helps,

-j

[skneip49]

Thanks for your patience and persistence with this old codger.
I will look at how all the parts align in a day or two,  when the parts get here.
The pal's certainly are thicker than the ratchet. And there's another thing. The ratchet is sort of domed, sort of "belleville" shaped,  and it's deformed up towards the main gear. I was worried about crashing into the main gear. I will look at that again as well.

[jurelometer]

No worries.  We are all learning here. Please post what you find, so we can learn some more

It looks to me like the dogs might have been  made thicker than normal to help them stay engaged.  There was probably not enough room to also make the ratchet thicker.  Plus it looks  like the dog spring passes under the dog (is this correct?).  This would mean that the dog does not have a  flat surface to ride on, which  could contribute to the dog tilting as well.   Once gear or dog pairs get angled out of alignment,  the radial load starts to transfer to axial load pushing the parts away from each other, which in turn causes more tilting.    It would be interesting to see if the new USA Senators had any design changes in this area.

BTW: If your drag was set within the specs, you might want to contact Penn.  It would seem that an argument could be made that an upgrade should be covered.

-J

[skneip49]

Here are 3 pics of the damaged dogs from my reel. I included the new ones on the left and right for comparison.
I took a pic of the main gear as well to show the grooves, but inadvertently deleted it.

The "dogs" or Pawls are a little thicker than the ratchet that they engage. The design is a little goofy in that the detent springs go on the post and the pawl goes on top of that, held in place by the main gear. I don't know if you can see the deformed teeth on the pawls, but they are pretty dinged up.

I have never used this reel for bait fishing, where we flyline a bait and let the fish run with it before putting the reel in gear. So there was no time that the reel was slammed into gear so that the pawls crashed into the ratchet.

It has been used only for fishing jigs and bombs, Yellowtail mostly and Wahoo, too. After casting or dropping the jig/bomb, the reel is placed in gear to start the retrieve. So, the cause of the deformity of the pawls is strictly the pressure applied when the fish took line under heavy drag. On the backside of the main gear where it contacts the pawls, there are two distinct grooves, one deeper that the other, the one worn into it from the deformed teeth on the pawls. New pawls and a metal drag star along with a nice clean and lube, and it's ready for another ten years of fishing. 

[handi2]

I have serviced many of these reels and use 2 of them. I have noticed the ratchet gear not being flat. It also seems the dogs float on their pins and actually can rub the bottom of the main gear but not enough to affect anything. All of mine are the newer ones.

[skneip49]

I have serviced many of these reels and use 2 of them. I have noticed the ratchet gear not being flat. It also seems the dogs float on their pins and actually can rub the bottom of the main gear but not enough to affect anything. All of mine are the newer ones.

This is what I had to say in my original post.

"I opened up my reel after my last trip for an inspection and service, couldn't believe what I found. Metal shavings like you might find in a machine shop. Turns out the dogs (pawls) were dinged up and deformed to the point of having "wings" for lack of a better term. These gouged up the backside of the main gear, couple of good sized grooves."

I don't know if ordering and installing the three parts of the inline change would improve things. I did replace the graphite drag star with the metal one. This is an '04 or '05 vintage reel. Does not have the side plate, bearing and collar that were part of the inline change.

[George4741]

skneip49, does it appear that the dogs are damaged by slipping between the main gear and ratchet gear, or underneath the ratchet gear?

Early on I installed a 6-49 (HT100 from a Penn 49) under the main gear of my Baja Special. It has a much larger diameter than the wimpy 4-155 fiber washer and, hopefully, it keeps the dogs from flopping around and prevents damage. My reel is also the newer model with the additional bearing.   

[skneip49]

I believe the damage to the teeth of these pawls is due to the soft material they are made from. Softer than the ratchet for sure. Fishing a buttoned down drag creates a lot of pressure. I mean we tighten the star about as much as we can. Yellowtail are structure oriented fish, and wherever we fish for them, they try to go back to the safety of that structure. Whether rocky bottom or pinnacles or kelp, they "just like to go home."

If you give them the chance, they will pull drag and try to earn their freedom. Very powerful and even though you think your drag is tight, a smaller fish, mid-teens, will amaze you. Usually 40 lb line when fishing live bait, 50 lb for yoyo iron. Fish a dropper loop just off the bottom with 60 lb minimum. Yellowtail 101.

[maxpowers]

i found another problem with the baja.  yesterday i was going to service my baja for the offseason.  i was not able to get the reel into gear no matter what.  i took the reel apart and found that the pinion shaft and the pinion did not slide easily.  the springs and the yoke were stillin good shape.  I cleaned out the pinion as best i could and also cleaned and lubed the shaft.  afterward i was able to get the reel in gear again.  but now i really am leery of using this reel if this happen again.

[johndtuttle]

i found another problem with the baja.  yesterday i was going to service my baja for the offseason.  i was not able to get the reel into gear no matter what.  i took the reel apart and found that the pinion shaft and the pinion did not slide easily.  the springs and the yoke were stillin good shape.  I cleaned out the pinion as best i could and also cleaned and lubed the shaft.  afterward i was able to get the reel in gear again.  but now i really am leery of using this reel if this happen again.

Dunno If I would put this in the "problem" category? This is an area that has to slide easily, probably just had a touch of salt in there.

Point is, if a reel is popular enough any area could have some trouble in the saltwater environment. Many, many hundred of Baja's have been used without this being identified as a "problem" area as far as I know. Just one more spot to keep lubed.