Fixing A Grabbing Drag

[Rivverrat]

Most seem to be pleased with the drag performance on the Fathom 25n Star Drag. Most aren't attempting to get out of it or fish this reel the way I have.

When I really began to take a hard look at this reel I decided based on this reels drag set up the capability was there for a much smoother drag.

This point has been made here before but is worthy of repeating..... the max drag numbers as stated by most all the manufactures "ARE WORTHLESS !" Put those numbers behind the tractor spread them out & watch the grass grow green. Most here know it would be foolish to fish a reel at these numbers.

The most important drag setting is the highest drag setting that can be reached while maintaining a glass smooth performance along with the reels capability to do this every day. I run into people all the time that don't have this understanding.
I have been on a path of learning what reels do this  best under the circumstances I use them.

I know others here are aware of this. But by doing this I have noticeably increased the smoothness of the drag on one of my 25N's,.  By simply lapping the the metal washers to a flat surface with emery cloth. If you will never fish your Fathom above 13-14 lbs. of drag this is probably not worth doing. The 25 N star drag performs quite well at these drag settings at least my 3 do.

[Rivverrat]

Here is the 3 drag washers from a 25n

[Rivverrat]

Here I've taken the top washer & inked it so the low & high spots show as I work it on the emery cloth. I started with 320.

[Rivverrat]

Best to keep even pressure by using one finger & working in a circle or figure 8. Turning the washer occasionally as you work it.

[Rivverrat]

You can clearly see the high & low spots. High spots shiny low spots still have a bit of ink. I do want to make clear the washer in this picture is the top washer of the stack it is different from the other 2. The bottom center is recessed. Do not remove this recess in the top washer. It does serve a purpose.The Torque 25n does not use the same top washer as the Fathom. We are dealing with the Fathom here.

[Rivverrat]

You can see the difference. One on the left is stock one on right I've polished stopping at this point with 600 grit. I'm thinking better performance maybe seen by stopping at 1200 grit we'll see.

The reason this works is because the washers are punched out making them untrue regarding their being flat...Causing the drag to grab & relese as the friction washers hit these high & low spots.
I am now getting much better, a much smoother drag at 15 lbs. using weights with line strung through rod for testing.

Any way give it a try. Let me know the outcome....Jeff

[wallacewt]

good stuff  riverratt

[Rivverrat]

Thanks! Here is something I consider a decent read. Some of it is very basic knowledge that I don't believe would take Draginstien to prove or disprove. Makes some statements I disagree with based on the fishing I do.

http://tocatchafish.blogspot.com/p/blog-page.html

http://tocatchafish.blogspot.com/p/fishing-reel-drags-advanced.html

[fIsHsTiiCkS]

Very nice job and solid work. Those drags are going to be silky smooth soon. After you add the cals and delrin you also were talking about in the other thread, those big cats won't stand a chance!

[Rivverrat]

These will be every day reels if I can get them to perform at an acceptable level. They wont be for throwing into & next to structure for really big fish. As much as I hate to say it I don't think any thing less than a Mak 20 or Penn 30 is going to work for that & give me the drag level I'm after. Right now I'm working on getting the drags on all 3 functioning as smooth as possible. Then the goal is attaining  18lbs. of drag that is still smooth. With Black Pearls 4.8/1 stainless gears I think this real would hold up nicely at that setting. Considering the way I would fish them while also being aware of their weaknesses.

I'm still going to take John's advice & purchase a couple of Mak 10's & an 8.   I think the Fathom 30 & 40 lever drag would make for a fine every day 60 lb. line reel for what I do.  However I am trying to make do the best I can with what I have right now.

[Reel 224]

These will be every day reels if I can get them to perform at an acceptable level. They wont be for throwing into & next to structure for really big fish. As much as I hate to say it I don't think any thing less than a Mak 20 or Penn 30 is going to work for that & give me the drag level I'm after. Right now I'm working on getting the drags on all 3 functioning as smooth as possible. Then the goal is attaining  18lbs. of drag that is still smooth. With Black Pearls 4.8/1 stainless gears I think this real would hold up nicely at that setting. Considering the way I would fish them while also being aware of their weaknesses.

I'm still going to take John's advice & purchase a couple of Mak 10's & an 8.   I think the Fathom 30 & 40 would make for a fine every day 60 lb. line reel for what I do.  However I am trying to make do the best I can with what I have right now.

Question; Just how smooth are these washers? Are they polished with a fine polishing compound after sanding? I know that disc brake rotters are de-glazed with scotch bright pads and a die grinder, so the pads grab better. Are we looking for that same principal here? 

[Rivverrat]

Reel 224, I'm attempting to make improvements in steps.   First step is obtaining the smoothest operating drag I can. This was the biggest issue I had with my 3 Fathoms... not being smooth at the drag setting I was using them. Which I have to say is higher than what most people with good knowledge would fish them. From the factory these washers still have what I would call a mill scale finish. I don't know this but any polishing done to them at the factory was probably done in a tumbler in large batches after they were stamped out...But again I don't know this for sure. They look smooth & shiny until you look really close.

I have jeweler's tool I use when doing action jobs on Colt & Smith double action revolvers. I don't know that taking things that far would be of any benefit. I will know before I'm done just how far I can polish before I reach the level of diminishing returns. But the washers need to be polished. Scratches can cause grabbing that's not conducive to smooth. Any increase in drag will come from force applied by turning the star & some stouter than stock bellville washers beneath it.  But I'm not at that point yet. A glass smooth 15 lbs. of drag would be far more important to me than anything higher that's not smooth. Hope this answered your question.....Jeff

[Tiddlerbasher]

That's pretty much the same method I use - I just finish off with jeweller's rouge and a dremel.

[Reel 224]

Reel 224, I'm attempting to make improvements in steps.   First step is obtaining the smoothest operating drag I can. This was the biggest issue I had with my 3 Fathoms... not being smooth at the drag setting I was using them. Which I have to say is higher than what most people with good knowledge would fish them. From the factory these washers still have what I would call a mill scale finish. I don't know this but any polishing done to them at the factory was probably done in a tumbler in large batches after they were stamped out...But again I don't know this for sure. They look smooth & shiny until you look really close.

I have jeweler's tool I use when doing action jobs on Colt & Smith double action revolvers. I don't know that taking things that far would be of any benefit. I will know before I'm done just how far I can polish before I reach the level of diminishing returns. But the washers need to be polished. Scratches can cause grabbing that's not conducive to smooth. Any increase in drag will come from force applied by turning the star & some stouter than stock bellville washers beneath it.  But I'm not at that point yet. A glass smooth 15 lbs. of drag would be far more important to me than anything higher that's not smooth. Hope this answered your question.....Jeff

Jeff: I understand your reasoning so far, I would only suggest that after using the emery cloth to resurface the washers, I would then take the next step and do what Tiddlerbasher does, using a polishing compound. Since you made mention to trigger work then I will say this when we are adjusting travel and a smooth brake we use an India stone to polish the two surfaces of the sear and hammer connection to decrease surface friction. If the same applies to your intent with the drag system, then polishing the washers should help. Respectfully;   Joe 

[johndtuttle]

"Lapping" of drag plates/washers is a time honored process for getting smoother drag performance.

Cal Sheets has offered "Blue Printing" of drag plates (using the blue to identify high spots) on big game reels for decades.

More and smoother drag is the result.