Main and Pinion Not Meshing Correctly

Started by akadashoe, June 07, 2015, 07:24:08 PM

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akadashoe

June 07, 2015, 07:24:08 PM
Upgrading a 501 JM to Tib frame, Black Pearl gear set, including a double dog bridge, and a stainless sleeve and CT's from Dawn.
When everything is assembled, it seems to be working correctly, however the pinion and main gears don't seem to mesh correctly, and the spool will turn in both directions, even though the dogs are clicking. I can stop the pinion from turning just by putting a finger on it while cranking the handle. I have tried various configurations, pionions, spacer sleeves, tension washer etc. but nothing is working.
I'm, stumped!

otghoyt

#1
June 08, 2015, 05:01:09 AM
I have messed up every way imaginable.  No worries.  Anything can be fixed.  Put it in gear.  You can always stop the pinion with the drags backed off or the free spool on.  The gears never mesh properly without the spool shaft in there.  If the gears are loud try valve lapping compound.  A little goes a long way and clean it off real good or it'll keep cutting when you're cranking in a fish.  Dishwasher works well.  You made a lot of changes with a lot of new parts.  Try replacing the old parts one by one till you find the culprit.  New parts always have to make friends with their dancing partners.

RowdyW

#2
June 08, 2015, 05:59:59 AM
akadashoe when you turn the handle and the pinion turns that means the gears are meshing. If they weren't the pinion would not turn. Have you checked if the pinion slips easily over the lug on the spool? Are you sure the drag stack is installed correctly or not partly slipped out of the main gear? It seems like a possible incorrect assembly.

Keta

#3
June 08, 2015, 02:27:01 PM
Is the pinion gear on backwards?
Hi, my name is Lee and I have a fishing gear problem.

I have all of the answers, yup, no, maybe.

A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way.
Mark Twain

foakes

#4
June 08, 2015, 03:27:22 PM
Is the pinion gear on backwards?

That would do it...

Most common issue from the symptoms you are experiencing.

Easy to do by accident.

Best,

Fred

The Official, Un-Authorized Service and Restoration Center for quality vintage spinning reels.

D-A-M Quick, Penn, Mitchell, and ABU/Zebco Cardinals

--------

The first rule of fishing is to fish where the fish are. The second rule of fishing is to never forget the first rule.

"Enjoy the little things in Life — For someday, you may look back — and realize that they were the big things"
                                                     Fred O.

Bryan Young

#5
June 08, 2015, 05:14:22 PM
Which valve lapping compound do you use?  I want to use as fine as possible would be my preference.
:D I talk with every part I send out and each reel I repair so that they perform at the top of their game. :D

akadashoe

#6
June 08, 2015, 06:17:03 PM
Guys,

Thanks for the replies.
I have an identical reel I am using for reference purposes, however it has a stock stack and gear/sleeve assembly.
I have tried putting the pinion(s) in both directions, doesn't matter.
I have removed and checked the stack assembly, ( i.e. ct under main gear, inside stack: ct, keyed, ct, eared, ct, keyed, tension spring, no tension spring) several times. Does not matter if the tension spring is on or off.
I have tried using both the stock spacing sleeve, and the beefed up sleeve that came with the gear kit, no help.
When the spool is in, the gears don't mesh at all, and the spool won't turn while the handle is cranked.
When the spool is out, the gears will mesh only occasionally while the handle is turned.
With the stock gear/sleeve/pinion assemblies, it works fine.

Shoe

akadashoe

#7
June 08, 2015, 06:25:35 PM
One other thing, I'm going to try a different sideplate next, and if that doesn't work, there will be a cheap gear set up for sale.  :D

Shark Hunter

#8
June 08, 2015, 07:27:36 PM
Is it the 5:1 gear set? I noticed you said you switched pinions. the black Pearl gears are helical cut and so is the pinion. A regular pinion won't work. I've ran into the same issue with one of mine. The pinion was too sloppy on the spool to mesh properly.
Life is Good!

akadashoe

#9
June 08, 2015, 07:40:33 PM
Correct Hunter, it's the 5:1 gear set.
I used both the pinion that came with the kit, and the original pinion.
They look very similar.
What I did notice however, was that when I installed the pinion and turned the handle it rattled around quite a bit, something my other reel doesn't do.
Something is amiss, I just need to figure out what.

Keta

#10
June 08, 2015, 08:49:09 PM
Could the gear set be for a 505?
Hi, my name is Lee and I have a fishing gear problem.

I have all of the answers, yup, no, maybe.

A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way.
Mark Twain

akadashoe

#11
June 08, 2015, 09:04:43 PM
Keta,

The kit I bought was $55 (for 500/501)
The 505 kit is $60.
I suppose they could have sent me the wrong set.
How would I tell the difference?   ???

Shoe

Keta

#12
June 08, 2015, 09:09:25 PM
I don't have a 505 pinion to look at but I think you could measure the pinion ID.
Hi, my name is Lee and I have a fishing gear problem.

I have all of the answers, yup, no, maybe.

A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way.
Mark Twain

Shark Hunter

#13
June 08, 2015, 09:16:32 PM
Check the play on the spool shaft with the pinion on it too.
Life is Good!

Alto Mare

#14
June 08, 2015, 09:54:00 PM
If the spool is going both directions there is a good chance you've installed  the wrong pinion.
To check this out, remove the spool from the reel and see if the pinion slides all the way up on the spool shaft.
The 505 pinion has a smaller notch  by the reinforced ring than the 500, the ID is also smaller... that would do it.
Forget about all the reasons why something may not work. You only need to find one good reason why it will.
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