WTB...First Gen., non-numbered, 14/0 handle

Tightlines667 · June 19, 2015, 07:00:12 PM

I was able to aquire a first generation 14/0 reel to add to my growing collection of early, first generation Senators. Unfortunately, the reel is in need of a period correct, non-numbered torpedo power handle in order to make her whole again.

Can you guys please check your existing bins, boxes, and drawers full of Penn handles to see if you happen to have this rare non-numbered 14/0 handle? And maybe just keep an eye out for one as well?

Here is a link to the Ebay listing:

http://m.ebay.com/itm/131538979948

And I attached a photo of Ray's ca.1940 14/0 with the handle I am searching for.

Shark Hunter · June 19, 2015, 08:15:33 PM

That is going to be a tough find John. I only have one handle that big with the torpedo style knob that came on the reel I got from you. I know it has the numbers on it.

coastal_dan · June 19, 2015, 09:00:26 PM

Congrats John, I'm enjoying watching your collection grow! Can't help with the handle now, but I enjoy surfing ebay so I'll put up a search on my home page.

Tightlines667 · June 19, 2015, 09:19:22 PM

I put up a post on ORCA and emailed several different guys who collect old Penns, and a few guys who regularily sell old Penn parts on EBAY. Maybe Fred, and Randy can have a look at their stocks when they get a chance? Any other leads would be welcomed.

Maxed Out · June 20, 2015, 01:41:06 AM

John, any pre-1950 14/0 handle will suffice. You may spend all your life looking for a first gen handle for that 14/0 with no success, as there are so few first gen 14/0 known to exist....Last I heard less than 6 have been found in the collector world. Pre-1950 is still non numbered and will be the same as the first gen without counterbalance.

BTW, congrats on that find that got passed over by everyone else.

Tightlines667 · June 20, 2015, 01:46:48 AM

Quote from: Max Doubt on June 20, 2015, 01:41:06 AM
John, any pre-1950 14/0 handle will suffice. You may spend all your life looking for a first gen handle for that 14/0 with no success, as there are so few first gen 14/0 known to exist....Last I heard less than 6 have been found in the collector world. Pre-1950 is still non numbered and will be the same as the first gen without counterbalance.

BTW, congrats on that find that got passed over by everyone else.

Thanks. I feel like a pretty lucky guy, but I have not actually inspected the reel in person, so I am remainimg somewhat guardedly optamistic that all the parts will be origional. I agree about finding the handle. 'Period-correct' in this case would include any non-numbered handle. I have put feelers out with pretty much all of my contacts at this point, so guess I need to just stay patient and vigalent in my search.

You guys have taught me well

Tightlines667 · June 24, 2015, 05:17:55 AM

Turns out I also need a 3-piece spool, should have held onto the one I had ( I think I had a 14/0 3 piece spool?) Before I was 'in the know', a non-numbered stand (I have never seen one), a non-number rod clamp, and 2 rod braces. The star, eccentric lever, ('oil-less') ball bearings, stand bolts, and other visable parts all seem origional. Now to crack her open and clean it up.

The tailplate bearings is labeled.."FAFNIR 35KDD C4 USA".

The headplate bearing is a fifferent style with an outter metal cage. The inside of the inner race is labeled..
"D H 3 5" The outside of the outer race is labeled..
"USA R 6 S M F".

Tightlines667 · June 24, 2015, 05:21:01 AM

A few more pics...

Shark Hunter · June 24, 2015, 05:27:01 AM

I've never seen a three piece spool on a 14/0. That reel must be really rare. I had a 16/0 that had one, but it was warped. I steer clear of them myself just for that reason.

Tightlines667 · June 24, 2015, 05:59:31 AM

There is a part number on the bridge as well "3-116". Interesting, a smaller 12/0 bridge with no pressed in locating pins. Notice the didellate is cut quite differently then the nodern 14/0, and as well. There are no part numbers on the inside of the rings, on the dog, eccentric, jack, yoke, or eccentric lever.

Superhook · June 24, 2015, 07:02:04 AM

John,

It would be good to ask the seller if he might have the old parts or know where they are...a friend or shop? Just for peace of mind .

Ray

Tightlines667 · June 24, 2015, 08:26:48 PM

Quote from: Superhook on June 24, 2015, 07:02:04 AM
John,

It would be good to ask the seller if he might have the old parts or know where they are...a friend or shop? Just for peace of mind .

Ray

Good idea Ray.

After a little more cleaning, and close inspection..I discovered the jack also has a part number. So to summarize, the following parts on my first generation 14/0 have part numbers or appear to possibly have been upgraded from stock:
-Handle assembly
-Stand
-Rod clamp
-Both Rod brace straps, but not turnbuckles and hooks
-Bridge
-Jack
-Spool (1 piece)
-Bearings (non-matching USA made, but caps appear origional)

Mike states in his book that given the scarcity of first gen 14/0s and the appearance of second gen gearbox location in the advertisements and catalogs ca. 1942, he believes these reels were only manufactured in the first Gen. config. for a short time (i.e. 1939-1940/41). These older looking, numbered parts found in this reel make me wonder if it is possible that the factory may have continued to use up old 14/0 stock when manufacturing new reels after the war, and the appearance of part numbers. It seems likely that the first part numbers, as well as the single piece spools (later on) were likely first used on the Senator series, and likely on the larger/more expensive Big-game models. It makes me wonder how old some of these numbered parts are, and when they first started appearing in the 9/0-16/0 reels. The reel has obviously been serviced and upgraded at some point during its life (as evidenced by the non-matching, extensively marked bearings), but were all of these numbered parts post-production additions to this reel? Or are did this reel leave the factory (possibly at a later then 1941 date) with a mix of numbered and nonnumbered parts? I nay never solve the mystery, but I am thinking of keeping this reel in 'as-found' condition (except fiving it a good cleaning, and trying to find a period-correct Power handle).

I am happy and fortunate to be the proud owner of a rare first generation 14/0, regardless if the reel is entirely factory-origional.

coastal_dan · June 25, 2015, 12:46:15 PM

Fun following along John. Congrats on the beaut.

Penn Chronology · June 25, 2015, 11:42:28 PM

John,

It seems your first gen 14/O is turning into an adventure. If we think about the time span from when a first generation 14/O hit the market to now, we are spanning about 70 years or so. Considering your reel was fished and not collecting dust, explains why you have so many part changes.

I have found one 14/O first gen reel in my travels. A few others have popped up in the last 8 years or so. The ones I know of are kind of spread out. A very small club of people have them. They may be other collectors, that tend to keep their possessions in the covert part of the hobby, hidden away in case some Penn reel terrorists decides to fly a Boeing 747 into the right side plate of one of them

Anyways, there is one in Brisbane, Oz, another in Key West, Florida, at least two in Oregon, mine in New York and now, yours. You are officially a first gen 14/O Club Member. At least that is a better club than the first gen 16/O club, there is only one member in that club.

So you need a handle, stand, bearings, spool, rod braces, a bridge and whatever. Seems to be that it would be an interesting story if your reel could talk.
Your reel has had a full life. It has been rejuvenated a number of times and it is still kicking. The most important part of your reel is the fact that it is a first gen 14/O. As collectors, I think we loose sight of things some times. Your reel is a first gen reel and that cannot be faked.

Here is a series of photos of my first gen 14/O;

Yup, a real Penn Senator, Model 117, Size 14/O first generation, sitting in front of two great literary works

. All original, not likely

Lets see,

This looks OK. A plain, old Penn 14/O logo.

Oh yea, lucky me. The handle is correct and could be a 1939 version, being I have no box, there is no way to tell what the year is, so it is a all original, first gen reel, only.

OK, Another original, no number part. My reel is still all original parts, or so it seems.

This is looking better and better, a original 3 piece, drilled spindle, 14/O spool. This must be an all original first gen 14/O

What's this, how could this be?

. Are those part numbers I see on my all original 1939 (maybe) 14/O first generation reel of which there are less than a half dozen known in the world

OMG, not again. and on both clamps. $:-\$ $:-\$ What am I to do?

?

Luckily, I believe that if a reel is perfect, no one used it. If no one uses something, logically, it is not a useful thing for the owner of it, rendering it useless for that person.

John,

Don't worry, be happy, your reel is not useless

. It is a significant part of Penn lore, enjoy it, you will probably never find another one.

So, OK, you need more than I do for complete compliance with the collectors rule book; but, don't let it throw you. You are still the proud owner of a very rare piece.

Penn Chronology · June 26, 2015, 12:21:34 AM

To continue my story, about eight years ago, a friend of mine that is disabled, calls me up and tells me he has a Old Penn 14/O. This old friend (call him Big Ed) is not totally disabled, he has a bad back. He could not continue his career, so he makes extra money by buying and selling fishing tackle. He travels to Florida to buy tons of gear and then comes back to New York to sell it at the New York Flea markets.
So, one day he calls me up and tells me he has an old 14/O that he picked and wants $250.00 for. He tells me it is rough; but, it works. I set up a time to meet him at a show and I go to the show. The first table is a dealer named Mike Popowich, I know him for a few years. I also know that Mike P. checks out all the other dealers wares before the show starts, so I figured, if the reel I came to see is any good, he has already snapped it up. Turns out, Mike P. saw the reel. I tell him I came to the show to get it and he tells me that it is rough and Big Ed want too much for it. I go meet Big Ed, he still has the reel, it is rough but as we have seen in the previous post; but, it is a first gen 14/O. I pay Big Ed his price and go see Mike P. with the reel. Mike P. tells me how dumb I am for paying so much for this old, beat up 14/O. I walk out of the show thinking I am not so dumb.

For many years, no one knew or at least acknowledged that there was any difference about early Senators. When you said First Generation Senators, no one knew what you were talking about.

Now we know!