Common problem? Penn Fathom 25N

[stiffblade]

Howdy all,

Seems I have a common problem but I have not read a common fix for it. I have a Penn Fathom 25N that  I recently purchased (used). As usual I drank a 6 pack of suds and did some internet surfing to get the lowdown on the reel. Some early models had a problem with getting the reel from freespool to in gear without putting a tiny little back pressure on the spool to ease the eccentric to bite. I have used the reel once and I did not have that problem. BUT, I have had the eccentric lever come loose just playing with the reel various times. When I got home from the first use of the reel I noticed it was very loose again.
Now getting ready for a tuna trip and while lubing the bearings I see that it is loose again. I tightened the screw but that only locks the eccentric and now I can't flip it into gear, so I have to loosen it, thus it becomes too loose when I flip it in gear a few times. This problem sucks because I have to take off the handle and all the goodies on that side just to tighten the screw.
Has anybody "fixed" this problem with locktight? Is red or blue the strongest? Will it even hold up to saltwater? I was really thinking of putting a thin washer or two under the screw head so the screw won't bind into the sideplate.

Any thoughts or ideas?
ps. Tani-ized the bearings and got 1:25.9 seconds of freespool, gotta love that!

[Rancanfish]

I can only add one little bit of assistance.

That is, don't use the red threadlock. Use the blue if you think you may have to remove that screw again.

Good luck. Someone with some experience will be along.....

[Keta]

Use blue 242.

[A6Supt]

I had a similar problem with my fathom 40.  After trying locktite the first time I added a small stainless lock washer under the screw for the eccentric lever and it has not come loose since.

[steelfish]

I have a Fathom 40 and havent had that problem, but I friend of mine have a FTH60 levelwind and his had this problem, as you said, I put a bit of blue locktite on the screw few months ago and so far so good.

[SoCalAngler]

Howdy all,

Seems I have a common problem but I have not read a common fix for it. I have a Penn Fathom 25N that  I recently purchased (used). As usual I drank a 6 pack of suds and did some internet surfing to get the lowdown on the reel. Some early models had a problem with getting the reel from freespool to in gear without putting a tiny little back pressure on the spool to ease the eccentric to bite. I have used the reel once and I did not have that problem. BUT, I have had the eccentric lever come loose just playing with the reel various times. When I got home from the first use of the reel I noticed it was very loose again.
Now getting ready for a tuna trip and while lubing the bearings I see that it is loose again. I tightened the screw but that only locks the eccentric and now I can't flip it into gear, so I have to loosen it, thus it becomes too loose when I flip it in gear a few times. This problem sucks because I have to take off the handle and all the goodies on that side just to tighten the screw.
Has anybody "fixed" this problem with locktight? Is red or blue the strongest? Will it even hold up to saltwater? I was really thinking of putting a thin washer or two under the screw head so the screw won't bind into the sideplate.

Any thoughts or ideas?
ps. Tani-ized the bearings and got 1:25.9 seconds of freespool, gotta love that!

The problem you first describe about "getting the reel from freespool to in gear without putting a tiny little back pressure on the spool" is the exact opposite that I have found with my Fathom 25N. The issue with some star drag reels is not putting the reel into gear where you need to back peddle the reel a bit but when you move the lever from engaged, fighting position, with pressure on the line/spool. This can make the lever harder to shift from engaged to freespool in some star drag reels. I have seen this mostly with Penn reels that have the free spindle feature but have had this issue with Newells, Diawa and other star drag reels. With some star drag reels when there is pressure on the spool from a fish, jig or snag it is hard to put the reel into freespool without having to force the lever back. The solution is to back peddle the reel slightly with your thumb to remove the tension on the spool which in turn takes the pressure off the gears and allows you to move the lever easily without having to force it into freespool.

What you first describe about having a little pressure on the line or spool sounds to me like when some people ask why their reel feels a little rough when they play around with it when not fishing. Some people flick their reels spool to see how it freespools, then when the spool stops and then they engage the lever and start to turn the handle and the reel feels rough. This can happen when the pinion gear does not line up fully with the notches on the spool. Even with the slightest pressure on the spool before it comes to a stop and you flip the lever the pinion and spool will lockup almost instantaneously and you will not feel a rough feeling when you turn the handle. You never notice this when fishing because there is always some pressure on the line/spool either from the water alone when flylining a bait, jig, lure or weight. But, this is not the issue you are having it seems to me.

Now having trouble moving the lever into gear opens a whole other box of worms and several things can be an issue. If your lever won't stay tight and since the reel was used when you got it look at the schematics and make sure all the washers are in your reel that deal with the lever. If so the other owner may have over tightened the screw holding on the lever either stripping the screw or most likely the lever where screw threads into. I service my own reels and I know my screw is nice and snug but not really tight and have not had a issue with it loosening.

I have been fishing a Fathom 25N pretty hard for 3 seasons now and I know several people that fish then also and no one I know have a issue with their lever that you describe.

[Tunanorth]

It seems likely that stiffblade is having the same issue as others, but perhaps worded it incorrectly.
it is true that a slight "cocking back" of the spool to relieve pressure on the gear train is necessary.
Only about 1/4 inch is necessary, and it becomes automatic [like manually levelwinding] after a very short adjustment period.

[Alto Mare]

Not long ago I received a Fathom 25N as a gift from a friend here and really like it.
I was not aware of this minor issue with needing to back the spool a little to disengage the gear.
I tried it for myself and sure enough the spool needed to be back a little for me to disengage the eccentric lever.
Not so noticeable with  small amount of drag, but when the star is cranked all the way it sure does it.
Even though it's not a big deal, it got me thinking a little. At first I thought the pinion was too snug on the shaft, I open the reel up and noticed that the pinion did have some play, so that couldn't have been the issue.
I also thought about the springs on the yoke being too stiff, I replaced those with a set of softer springs and the problem became worst

I then noticed that the yoke was sitting too close to the main gear, actually almost touching, so I thought when applying pressure with the lever the yoke would tilt a little and making contact with the main gear.
I filed 1/16 off where I'm showing by the red marks


placed everything back and sure enough it isn't doing it anymore.

I cannot confirm that I fixed the problem, it is working good now, but needs to be tested out in the real world.
Penn Senators and others do it often, but those are not the same reels. If you soften the tip of  the notched area on the spool shaft it helps.
Sal

[russ1962]

Sal,
Just curious if you have had a chance to fish the reel yet.
Any updates ?

Thanks!
Russ

[Alto Mare]

No I didn't Russ. I do want to, but it would be 5-6 months from now.

Sal

Russ, after answering you, I did some more tests to make sure. The reel was  disengaging, but but still with a little resistance.  Not much, but you could feel it.
At some point I lost freespool, I couldn't figure out why, so I opened the reel back up.
From taking another look at the yoke, I noticed that there is enough clearance there.
On my previous test, I was pushing the jack too far up with a screwdriver as I was testing it.
So, disregard what I've mentioned above, the yoke is fine as is.

I did notice a shiny line on the jack that I didn't like, there is lots of force there when shifting to freespool.
The jack has squared tabs, I wonder if those would get changed with something as a trapezoid shape would help any, sorry, the only way I could explain it. This might actually work, the pinion has almost zero sideway movement.
Or, you could just live with it, as Steve and a few others have mentioned, it's not  a big deal, once you get used to it.

I also want to point out that there is a good chance that the helical cut gears are helping with this small issue, maybe softening the pitch will cure it. Those get jammed pretty tight when engaged.

Sorry for wasting your time guys, this is a nice little reel and I just wanted to help a little.

Sal 

[Fish-aholic]

The remedy I chose for the eccentric lever working loose, is a combination of medium grade threadlock (blue) and marine grease. My procedure is to first clean the male and female threads with solvent; apply threadlock to the bottom half of the eccentric screws threads and replace screw into the eccentric lever. Leave exposed a few threads before slapping m/grease under the slotted head before buttoning up fully. No further problems and it can easily be re-serviced at a later date. The use of threadlock alone with saltwater contamination could make future removal more difficult.

For the smaller FTH12 and 15 SD reels I frequently service, I have noticed Penn have made several internal revisions. Maybe the larger models such as the 25N have had these revises, though, I cannot clarify this assumption. Here are the design changes I have noted:

Pinion yoke & jack plate have been changed to chromed brass.

Lighter gauge wire yoke springs.

Eccentric cam has an elongated pin for better engagement with the jack plate.

Plain-faced IAR bearing clutch sleeve has been replaced with a sleeve with two groves machined into it.


Before revision:




After:








With the pinion gear hang-up issues, polishing the ramped areas of the clutch plate - plate that retains the right spool bearing - should aid the squared pegged head of the pinion gear to slip into engagement easier. Replacing the yoke springs from stiff to softer ones helps here too. IMO, the previous stiffer springs were helping the pinion to bind within the ramped recesses of the clutch plate, causing the roughness in the handle from a hung-up pinion to occur when engaging the drive from freespool. A sudden stop upon cranking would agitate it enough to hear a clunk signalling the two fully mating.

I am also seeing corrosion issues. The clutch plate mentioned above suffers from surface corrosion, also causing greater hang up issues. Easily remedied with some fine grade. The other issue more note worthy of flagging up is the eccentric lever. If it ever gets contaminated with a lot of saltwater and left to fester, galvanic corrosion will rapidly begin. The post which the eccentric cam is keyed to quickly perishes ceasing the function to engage and disengage. A replacement lever will be needed. Pull the eccentric apart and grease thoroughly would be my advise.

Just want to give you guys some heads up at what I've personally come across. 

Steve     

[Cor]

I have two FTH25N's (Star Drag) that I have never been happy with.

Both reels are also a bit harder to shift from engaged to freespool but as that is not unique to these reels, I can live with it.

Just something else:-
I purchased these reels mainly for their potential casting ability, but was disappointed.

Both reels make a noise and vibrate when casting as if something is out of balance.   The one I use with a lighter casting weight less then the one I use with a heavier weight.
If anyone has any ideas about fixing this, it could potentially be a great reel.

The other thing is that the stock handles are really bad.   The point where the handle axel is anchored in to the handle arm very quickly develops play and then it is a mater of days before the whole thing becomes loose and starts to wobble.     I had two handles replaced by the agents and both packed up again within a month.

[johndtuttle]

I have two FTH25N's (Star Drag) that I have never been happy with.

Both reels are also a bit harder to shift from engaged to freespool but as that is not unique to these reels, I can live with it.

Just something else:-
I purchased these reels mainly for their potential casting ability, but was disappointed.

Both reels make a noise and vibrate when casting as if something is out of balance.   The one I use with a lighter casting weight less then the one I use with a heavier weight.
If anyone has any ideas about fixing this, it could potentially be a great reel.

The other thing is that the stock handles are really bad.   The point where the handle axel is anchored in to the handle arm very quickly develops play and then it is a mater of days before the whole thing becomes loose and starts to wobble.     I had two handles replaced by the agents and both packed up again within a month.

Have you checked the Centrifugal Brakes on the left side of the spool. When engaged they create a "buzz" in their raceway (natural part of their braking action) as they do their job. You may need more or less brake to get the most out of their excellent casting ability.



best

[Cor]

I have two FTH25N's (Star Drag) that I have never been happy with.

Just something else:-
I purchased these reels mainly for their potential casting ability, but was disappointed.

Both reels make a noise and vibrate when casting as if something is out of balance.   The one I use with a lighter casting weight less then the one I use with a heavier weight.
If anyone has any ideas about fixing this, it could potentially be a great reel.

Have you checked the Centrifugal Brakes on the left side of the spool. When engaged they create a "buzz" in their raceway (natural part of their braking action) as they do their job. You may need more or less brake to get the most out of their excellent casting ability.


best

I removed the centrifugical cast control on both reels completely and replaced with a magnetic system....so no can be.
Have also tried re spooling reel in all kinds of different ways.
I interchanged parts between the two reels to see if I could locate something that way.
I even tried balancing the spool(s) in a fairly primitive way, which improved it slightly.

Somehow I think it has something to do with the lightness of the spool and the fairly heavy gauge mono (0.50mm) I use.   Though I also tried braid at one time and it made little difference.

With lighter line and casting weight down to 1.5 oz the issue is much reduced.

[Yogi_fish808]

I have two FTH25N's (Star Drag) that I have never been happy with.

Both reels are also a bit harder to shift from engaged to freespool but as that is not unique to these reels, I can live with it.

Just something else:-
I purchased these reels mainly for their potential casting ability, but was disappointed.

Both reels make a noise and vibrate when casting as if something is out of balance.   The one I use with a lighter casting weight less then the one I use with a heavier weight.
If anyone has any ideas about fixing this, it could potentially be a great reel.

The other thing is that the stock handles are really bad.   The point where the handle axel is anchored in to the handle arm very quickly develops play and then it is a mater of days before the whole thing becomes loose and starts to wobble.     I had two handles replaced by the agents and both packed up again within a month.

I owned 2 fathom 40 stardrags before getting a Torque 40 and never had issues getting excellent casting distance after doing a pre-fishing service. Penn applies way too much of their blue grease in places that it shouldn't be. Namely the spool bearings/shaft and drag stack. I cleaned the bearings with Brakleen and put 1 drop of tsi321(reelx is ok too), along with the spool shaft. Grease was gumming up the bearings and reducing freespool by a lot. This was a while ago but I was getting over 2 minutes of freespool with line on the spool and excellent distance w/ 40-50lb mono and an 8oz weight (~90+ yards with bait causing drag). I also had the cast control completely off and made sure to have slight side to side play with the spool tension knob.