US113 Handle Going Backwards

[Rivverrat]

just checked all the gears they look fine

[Rivverrat]

One of the pins the dogs ride is taller that the other. The tall one was the one the bad dog rode on.

[Rivverrat]

No, I didnt use pliers to tighten the drag

[Alto Mare]

If all looks good, place a new dog in there and take it back fishing, that will tell the story.

[Three se7ens]

Those dogs are injection molded metal, and i believe it's a pretty common failure on the Baja special.

Lee was having some dogs cut from stainless plate, which will be far stronger.

[Rivverrat]

Sal, that looks like what I'm going to do. I had my drag set around 20 lbs. when I had that fish. Did not have a gob of line stripped from the reel. Just a very short spurt. I baited up tossed back out & immediately got snagged. Tightened the drag down pulled & I about went over backwards when the reel gave.
Only thing I have done to this reel prior to fishing it was testing the drag out & I messed around moving the gear box & handle in the different positions & trying out.

But what I find weird is that both springs were not in their proper position. I dont see how this would have caused the other spring on the good dog to come out of position. Ive not cleaned all the grease off the pinion yet. So I'll clean everything up really good so I can get a good look at it all tomorrow.

Like your saying maybe just a fluke. But after this it will be a bit before I truly trust this reel when I'm leaning on it. Much rather it be something wrong that I can fix.  

[Shark Hunter]

You beat me to it Adam. I was going to say. That dog can't be stainless to break like that.
My biggest fish was about 175lbs and The 12/0 had a stock brass dog and was pulling me a few steps. (The reel was John's)
I have Lee's dogs in all my reels.

[Rivverrat]

Ya Daron it's pretty soft.

Well I'll look at again tomorrow. But right now looking at all the grease tracks & marks laid by moving parts stuff looks like its all lining up like it should.

[steelfish]

Is this the New baja you just bought?
Or do you have. US senator (which is the same reel)

[foakes]

First, this is a very good reel -- only weak spot is the A/R mechanism.

For a quality reel designed to go after large fish -- they can put 8 dogs on this reel -- but since the dog material is moulded and not machined or cut -- it will fail.

The second bad thing, IMO, is the "floating dog system".  The tiny, weak dog springs are supposed to hold the dogs suspended above the bridge -- and keep constant contact the A/R wheel.  These springs are so weak, and mounted in such a way as to promote non contact and slop between the wheel, gear, springs, and dogs -- they are almost like an afterthought to accommodate the versa drag system requirements.  The result is slop and one of these items coming loose under heavy stress -- which in turn causes a chain reaction of failure in other components.

Every time I work on one of these Bajas or US Senators -- I marvel at how well they perform -- and am always promising myself to re-engineer the bridge, A/R dogs, springs, and ratchet.  Then it would be a perfect reel, IMO.  They just need better springs, SS dogs, solid spacers under the dogs to hold them in position. 

I do not know any repair folks who would not agree with this -- if they have ever had one of these apart -- then tried to get the bridge back in place without the springs coming off only once or twice, if your lucky -- before getting everything aligned.  Then, when everything is in place and fastened tight -- there can always be a movement, slop issue, or just cheap dog material to fail.

Some reels, such as Newells and others -- utilize C clips to keep these parts in place.

There is no better, or stronger reel anywhere in the world -- than one of Sal's "Tanks".

If manufacturers made tanks -- they would not be able to sell reels when they fail -- because tanks will not fail.

But they would not sell enough of the Tanks -- because, to the younger generation -- they are not cool -- they are old school.

Here is the last one I worked on for a friend, Wayne -- about a month and a half ago.

Now the drag is silky smooth with more pounds from drag off to full lock down.

Just really finicky reels that would be perfect with a better dog/spring, and solid dog placement system.

Best,

Fred

[Alto Mare]

But this begs the question of why did Penn design this weakness into the reel?  

Maybe sacrificial parts . Put lee's dogs in there and time will tell.
If it is a new reel, I'm not sure if any modifications would void the warranty.

[STRIPER LOU]

I'm going to agree  on this one and maybe its a fluke. I do know the dogs are cast but I have a friend that has caught many, many bluefin  tuna in the 100/150 lb class with no problem. These fish are absolute beasts! There is no doubt that a solid SS dog would help and a better spring arrangement as Fred has said but as you know nothing is perfect!  Sal likes the tank and so do a lot of others, myself included. Basically on the tank you taking everything that was weak on the reel and adding better parts to make it near perfect. Pretty tough to beat but it wont be cheap!
........................Lou

[Rivverrat]

  From Fred's in depth description of this being a weakness in this reel & reports from others of this being an issue. It will be a bit before I can trust this reel. When on the water I fish from a small boat & canoe. I dont drink any more. However I dont need a reel that afflicts me with the same symptoms  as the drink did. Which would be falling out of my boat & being slammed into the ground. Which this reel at present is capable of bringing about when leaned on heavily. 

This reel does sell. Charkbait goes through their inventory of them regularly. I think one can safely assume that the person that buys this reel has specific reason for doing so. What I'm getting at is I believe their would be a good level of interest in strengthening this area. I believe Sal's Tank has much merit. However I & others need what the Baja & US113 reel offers regarding it's free spool.

First order the pins that hold the dogs need to be stabilized. My thoughts are to braze or epoxy the pins in place. Would be as strong or most likely stronger than any threads. Worried about wear? The pins could be sleeved.     Fred & Sal, whoever else  I would really appreciate your thoughts on all this & moving forward what would be the best spring set up.
The big question can this issue be dealt with using the stock bridge? My thoughts are it can.

[Rivverrat]

There is room for slightly taller pins. So a retaining clip could be used with different pins.

One of the biggest issues is the dogs are not making full contact with the gear. I'm thinking using shims/washers to alleviate this would be a huge, simple step in the right direction.

You can see in the posted pic there is a bit of clearance between the the dog & respective pins.

[Alto Mare]

No wonder it failed, only half of the dog was working.  I'm thinking that ratchet is too thin, looks like a bad design to me. That ratchet needs to be  as thick as the dogs, they could hollow out the bottom center to make it work.
Sal