bearing lube

[thorhammer]

Hey folks, throwing 8 n bait with conventional reel; need MAX distance; don't worry about my thumb's edumacation....it's fine...what bearing lube is preferred? Gotta go well over a hundo...I've been using a squirt of Super Slick Stuff and it does pretty well but ten yards can be hero or zero getting over a bar. Lemme hear it...

Thor

[johndtuttle]

Hey folks, throwing 8 n bait with conventional reel; need MAX distance; don't worry about my thumb's edumacation....it's fine...what bearing lube is preferred? Gotta go well over a hundo...I've been using a squirt of Super Slick Stuff and it does pretty well but ten yards can be hero or zero getting over a bar. Lemme hear it...

Thor

Best we know of is TSI 321.

[Jeri]

Hi,

Casting 8+bait over 100 metres is not a problem with the right equipment - but the rod does make a huge difference, whether fast or moderate tip action, as this then transfers to the reel action.

What reel are you using???

Generally for that class of tackle we would be using something like a Trindad 30 or Finnor Lethal 30, or may be a Diawa 50 of some description. With all these reels, the spool speed aspect is best serviced with ABEC 3 or higher bearings on the spool and any of the good bearing oils - we prefer Reel X or Hot Sauce, depending on likely servcie intervals.

The other big aspect for distance is line diameter - for every 0.05mm down in size of line you are likely to get an extra 10-15 metres. Typically a 40lb line will measure 0.55mm, so just stepping down to 0.50mm will get you some extra distance. With a long surf rod, you can't actually pull much more than 20-25lbs pressure at full tilt, so thicker lines just give you a little more confidence and abrasion protection.

Hope that helps.

Jeri

[Tiddlerbasher]

What John and Jeri said. TSI301/321 for spool bearings - lasts well over a year (over 2 years on my test bed reel). Without Knowing your target species it's difficult to recomend a rod/reel/line combo. For beach casting in the UK rods used are typically 14/15ft rated at about 5-6oz. Favoured reels Penn 525, Ambassadeur 6000/7000, Diawa Slosh 20/30. Akios reels - AFAIK are made by Omoto - are gaining a good reputation. Line for distance work would be 12-15lbs with a shock leader - essential for power casting to 150-200 yds. A heavier line (30lb) is used for rough ground work.

[thorhammer]

Thanks gents!


Reels: 525 mag and 980 with 20 lb and a shock are the two most used on 12' fast graphite comp rods rated 4-10oz, but also 535 and Slosh 20 (latter with 15 and shock). the 20 is on a lighter 2-6 graphite rod. Occasionally, I will break out the Abu's but don't have CT cages and don't like level winds in surf applications. I use Hot Sauce also, but will try to get my hands on some TS321.

Looking to build a 12' Century before the next trip and get just a lil' bit extra...I also see this morning about some good results with Fathom 20N so may explore that. The pros are all espousing the new Truth (Release) reels but I dont see dropping $400 on a reel to use once a year when I already can't use all I have.

[Jeri]

HI,

Hate to state the obvious, but basically in surf casting it is the rod that makes the cast, all the reel has to do is be fast enough to give the sinker line as required. Very few people can cast super fast rods to their full potential, so super high speed spinning reels are not often needed.

A client testing rods and reels today, barely got a Resease SG spinning, so he wasn't loading the rod enough to get the reel going properly. Too fast a reel only exagerates poor casting problems, and then highlight it with huge crow's nests.

Hope that helps.

Jeri

[johndtuttle]

Thanks gents!


Reels: 525 mag and 980 with 20 lb and a shock are the two most used on 12' fast graphite comp rods rated 4-10oz, but also 535 and Slosh 20 (latter with 15 and shock). the 20 is on a lighter 2-6 graphite rod. Occasionally, I will break out the Abu's but don't have CT cages and don't like level winds in surf applications. I use Hot Sauce also, but will try to get my hands on some TS321.

Looking to build a 12' Century before the next trip and get just a lil' bit extra...I also see this morning about some good results with Fathom 20N so may explore that. The pros are all espousing the new Truth (Release) reels but I dont see dropping $400 on a reel to use once a year when I already can't use all I have.

The knock on Hot Sauce has been durability and corrosion protection which is why my first choice is Corrosion-X.

As Jeri noted above speed is often not your limiting factor and we have counseled some guys casting heavy weight to use thick marine bearing grease in their bearings as a poor man's cast control.

Among the better casting reels like Penn Squall it really is a case of the rod and line choice, not what lube is on the bearings, to get max distance as well as the other factors in Jeri's fine post.

As well, find the widest reel you can for your setup (like Squall 15), this will make a big difference in distance too (more line out per revolution of the spool as line goes out the spool doesn't get as small as fast).

[handi2]

I use the TSI 301 oil. Its much thinner than the 321. After oiling I spin them with air.

[thorhammer]

All great advice, thanks guys!

IMO contrary to a spinner which has limited structural function in a cast other than perhaps the conical lay of the line on spool, the caster is very integral to the four inputs of rod, line, reel and technique as to casting distance. Weather of course is fifth variable not controllable. For instance an out of the box 6500c3 is not going to out throw a 6500 Blue Yonder tricked out, all else being equal. This underscores the importance of proper tuning, which also balances the individuals ability to smoothly accelerate and maximize the rod capability (Jeri's valid point) with the casters educated thumb.

Now, I'm out of practice, which is a critical part of going yard just like in golf. A few hours getting into it will actually probably yield more gain than a NASA nano fluid.

That said I'm scoring some TS and Corrosion X and will do a live test on identical reels to see which is better for me. Very likely 525's on ten foot graphite, 15 lb mono and shock with five ounces for a test platform.

[johndtuttle]

All great advice, thanks guys!

IMO contrary to a spinner which has limited structural function in a cast other than perhaps the conical lay of the line on spool, the caster is very integral to the four inputs of rod, line, reel and technique as to casting distance. Weather of course is fifth variable not controllable. For instance an out of the box 6500c3 is not going to out throw a 6500 Blue Yonder tricked out, all else being equal. This underscores the importance of proper tuning, which also balances the individuals ability to smoothly accelerate and maximize the rod capability (Jeri's valid point) with the casters educated thumb.

Now, I'm out of practice, which is a critical part of going yard just like in golf. A few hours getting into it will actually probably yield more gain than a NASA nano fluid.

That said I'm scoring some TS and Corrosion X and will do a live test on identical reels to see which is better for me. Very likely 525's on ten foot graphite, 15 lb mono and shock with five ounces for a test platform.

Glad to hear it Thor! Keep us posted  .

[Jeri]

Hi Thor,

Now you have me totally confused. You started with an 8+bait situation looking to reach 100 metres on heavier 12' rods, and now we are down to 10' rods, a 525 with 15lb line and a 5oz sinker.

From a pragmatic position, 8oz sinkers sent out with light line is possible, but far from ideal, and any burying of the sinker is sand or connection with any structure, and the sinker will stay there, as the 15lb line will not be able to cope.

For clean bottom fishing, 5oz and 15lb line is practical, but as soon as you start to go up in sinker weight for whatever reason, you will need to raise the main line strength considerably. We use 8+bait here, even over clean bottom for sharks up to 300lbs, and would never consider going below 30-40lb main line, not purely for the strength of the sharks but to get the sinkers and tackle back from the sea bed.

Setting a small reel (525) up for light surf fishing, and then upgrading the line later will only cause a lot of problems, with the spool being too fast. Hence the reason that I muted that we use large diameter spool reels, and run them slower to effect sufficient line delivery from each revolution of the spool, but running the reels slower to maintain control of the very weighty issue of 8+bait.

In the dynamics of distance casting – it is generally accepted that 5 ½ oz is absolute optimum for distance, and further increases in sinker weight actually reduce distance achieved. And in that situation small diameter reels with fine/thin line spinning at speed offer the optimum. However, once you get to the realms of 8+bait – so perhaps a combined sinker and bait combination of 10-18oz of 'payload' – the dynamics change considerably, as no longer is the payload an easily controlled entity, that can be cast powerfully and smoothly. Levering 10-18oz over your head requires a seriously stiff rod, and the whole cast needs to be much slower and smoother to motivate such a huge payload – hence slower spinning large diameter spool reels – potentially offering twice as much line per revolution over a 'small' reel.

I appreciate that you are fishing a different area to myself, however we would be looking to use a 14' rod to optimise distance with a 5oz sinker and bait, and perhaps go down to 11-12' rods to use with seriously heavy sinkers and baits, purely from a leverage point of view in the cast, as well as to slow down the whole casting process. At the end of the day, it comes down to the physical strength of the angler/caster, as to whether he/she can motivate such huge payloads with sufficient power – but not speed during the cast.

Hope that helps

Cheers from sunny Africa


Jeri